Proposed Release of Strawberry Guava Biocontrol

So you think the long term effects of letting guava continue to spread are better than the changes, as well as preservation of other areas, which might occur if the scale was released?

Because my view is flat out the opposite and I am thinking long term. Can't imagine anything worse than thick guava killing more forest and turning it into seasonal mud holes that washes away. Even disturbance colonizing weeds sound better to me. At least they form some ground cover and restoration can take place in them (with the exception of clidemia but it's pretty much everywhere anyway). Not sure what you meant by "once those trees die".

There's something I don't get: did Tracey say they would defoliate the guava trees?

I agree It's definitely possible for an airborn insect to jump islands. Fungal spores can do it quite quickly, in months. So did the erythrina gall wasp. I guess a nymph in the wind might take a little longer due to increased size-decreased amount from the spore. Or maybe it needs to find a host too quickly to survive island to island travel. Tracey should have known how long it can survive and what the odds are.

Bummer on the guava clearing and weeds. Good lessons to be learned and a lot of questions come to mind. Was there any plan to partially thin the guava, phasing it out with outplantings of native overstory species?

Nic I'll try to be quick cuz my battery is almost dead,

First off, No I do not. That being said I think you as well as them fail to see the big picture. On some islands like the Big Island there are areas where there is very little guava encroaching or beginning to replace NATIVE FOREST. In this instance I feel it would be worth while to do. Due to the fact that the stands are not very large and widely dispersed.

Now look at the flip side, Oahu has mostly degraded forest with minimal if any INTACT NATIVE FOREST. We also have whole valleys that are mostly waiawi. For the most part alot of it isnt what we call "DOGHAIR" which is the thick hardly can walk thru stuff. Alot of it is fairly open understory. Now once the canopy of the guava is gone light loving fast growing non-native invasives move in VERY QUICK so then it becomes worse than having a fairly open understory to clidemia,chrystella,pasiflora.basket grass,guinea grass etc.etc. You just have to see it to understand what I mean.

What I meant by saying "Once those trees die" was that if there is no more fruit then there is no more recruitment due to there being no more seed bank. So if there is no more seed then all left remaining is the current trees now infected. "Once they die" what replaces them.

Sorry gotta go

Thanks Koa boa. I have never been to Oahu forests and I agree Guava dominated areas probably will be changed for the worse while it would be a good thing elsewhere. Now you got me thinking of making maps. We have those areas here too. It's not all doghair and we have some open understory. But it usually is thick enough to render a gun almost useless. There's still one thing I don't get: did Tracey say they would defoliate the guava trees?

I'm going to go ahead and assume that it will so some degree.

It would definitly open the doors for outplantings and restoration programs.

Also found this article by Lloyd Loope which talks about how they came to pick T. ovatus. He's pro biocontrol.
http://www.hear.org/misc/mauinews/pdfs/20081012_biocontrol.pdf

Nic to answer your lingering question, NO, he didnt say they would be defoliated like how the rust did to the rose apple.

MY CONCERN is this, now hear me out on this one and try to think about what im saying. once the trees are infected and once they no longer produce fruit it kinda produces a sterile environmrent. I look at it as if all the people were infected and no longer produced kids those peeople are THE LAST GENERATION. when they die it will be gone. now no one knows how long a waiawi will live under these cconditions. So as in our forest alot of it is pretty much the same age. Now if this patch is infected its safe to say theyll die at almost the same interval causing a huge light gap all at once....Then what happens?

Like I said in native forest where its just beginning to encroach etc. it may work. But if it ever got to places like im talking bout then it could be very bad.

Another issue I have with what Tracey said was that alot of what they were comparing to was in Brazil where it is NOTHING LIKE WHAT ITS LIKE HERE. Like comparing apples to oranges the pics he showed us were hilarious I couldnt beliieve they were making claims using that as thier PROOF!

I see what your saying now. That IS out of the box.

Nic, Thanks for listening and trying to understand what im trying to say.

IF it worked EXACTLY like they say then I could see it being used beneficially in our NATIVE FOREST ENVIRONMENT especially in areas where the waiawi is just beginning to get a foothold. He showed us some pics of areas in the big island where aerial foliage mapping was done that showed huge tracts of Native Forest with small cancer cells of waiawi interspersed throughout. These are the types of areas where I believe this Bio-Control has a place, BUT...If it ever made it to areas like we have regardless of spread method then it could spell doom to other things ummmmm maybe like the ENDANGERED OAHU ELEPAIO that have adapted to the large waiawi forest and now make it their home and thrive in it. Dont know what would happen with the Elepaio if the guava went and was replaced with scrub brush,invasive ferns and grasses.

He said that in Brazil there were areas that were affected by the gall and three blocks away the trees were unaffected. I TOLD HIM THAT IT WOULD BEHOOVE HIS DATA ETC IF HE COULD ACTUALLY FIND THE ACTUAL DISTANCE THAT A GALL CAN TRAVEL ON THE WIND. My issue with his thinking that it would take a pretty long time for it to spread due to the fact that he feels that because it needs wind to travel distances and it needs new leaves in order to establish infection. My Response to Tracey was that in the forest we have NO WIND WOULD BE NECESSARY AND NEW LEAVES WOULD ALWAYS BE AVAILABLE because the canopy is pretty much touching one another so the infection would just sweep across it like wildfire IF THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU. Also the canopy is almost always full with new leaf material so the bio-control would always have new trees to jump to until the whole patch was infected which according to the life cycle would be pretty quick.

To answer your other question about the guava thinning etc leading to the demise of alot of endangered plants. Yes, outplanting is always part of the management plan but due to the fact that most native plants are SLOW growers it sometimes doesnt work the way you plan it to if you know what I mean.

Dont get me wrong I do see benefits to something like this but there was alot of HOPE,THEORY and just plain CONTRADICTION for me to accept something of this scale especially with the huge possibilty of it making it to somewhere that it may do more harm then good.

You also bring up a good point.....THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH NATURAL RESOURCE WORKERS,VOLUNTEERS ETC TO HANDLE THE UPKEEP NEEDED TO ENSURE SOLID NATIVE ECOSYSTEMS ON A VERY LARGE SCALE. Hell our program has logged thousands maybe tens of thousands of hours just controlling Guinea Grass in Makua Valley. I cant even imagine how many hours and herbicide we spend on Guava control, both of these are just ONE SPECIE. Now if guava was to be replaced with even two different invasive species being in the same line of work you can see where im going with this.

Aloha's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll agree, in pure guava stands, it will be substituting one weed with another. After looking on the maps, the areas with monotypic stands are still pretty miniscule across the state (more significant on Oahu) and for those weeds to colonize it, they would have already been present in the area anyway. And the weeds which actually have potential to take over forests: on Kauai, it's probably albizia the clidemia (costers curse, blue berry bush or whatever you prefer to call the @%&!). I can see how that would be bad for hunting to have more clidemia but from a forestry standpoint, clidemia isn't as bad as guava. At least you can work with it; suppress it with extreme shade and pig activity; plant saplings into it. Biocontrols already weaken it and pretty much exclude it from very sunny areas. I even read that they are releasing more for Miconia but which attack clidemia too. So the outlook for that weed looks promising. I’m sure there are probably a couple more serious weeds on Oahu which I am not aware of...

There's a benefit to not waiting too long (thinking decades) so that guava doesn’t colonize too much more.

You say there's a lot of HOPE and THEORIES. Sure. I agree. What's wrong with that? People see an OPPORTUNITY for good, and even you yourself agree that most of the impact would be for the good (if it works exactly as they say it would). This would free up a lot of man power to deal with other weeds, outplant, restoration programs and whatever else is needed. So of course there is hope and theories! Theories and predictions, including yours, are how we make rational decisions. Your saying we shouldn’t do this because … I would say, lets have a plan like to airdrop lots of seeds over guava patches in case what you predict does happen. Heck, that’s actually a great idea… That should be a condition of the release!

There are lots of good impacts, a few bads. BUT TO NOT DO THIS, I see as the loss of much native forest, maybe even the extinction of that Elepaio you speak of the guava helping, not to mention many more species. So to me, and I’m pretty sure I represent just about everybody who supports it when I say, to release the scale may be bad in some ways, but to not release it would be even worse.

(Sigh) …what do they want, a five year moratorium? Ask for two years with the goal not to stop the introduction outright but rather to investigate what response can be done to mediate any negative impacts. What I mean by that is what seeds can be hand sown or airdropped onto a guava patch to replace it and suppress unwanted vegetation.

It seems as though all these feel gooder's always want to play GOD and try to get some federal funds to put in there pockets as usual.Before trying to get rid of something that might someday help us survive, why don't you guy's first create a invasive proof plan to stop invasive plants from coming. Before you start trying to kill what has already been established for more years then most of you are alive.Why don't they get rid of invasive none fruiting plants before the invasive fruiting ones?My conclusion is that it all boils down to being able to get rid of the pigs.Why I say this is that if there is no more fuit left in the forest,the pigs will need to move to backyards for fruit and food and will also create more distruction rooting to find food in the forest.Now if thats done,guess what?The feel gooder's will have Enough amunition to get permission to do a mass eredication of the pigs.People in subdivisions will be crying and asking for the state and the feel gooder's to kill all pigs.
Did that so called Ohia Rust just came out of nowhere?What a bunch of crock.Why only after seeing a bunch of Invasive species people with bottles of clear liquid on Kainahola Rd.,telling me that they were giong to spray the Clidemia with a fungus to try and see if it was going to kill it.Wow! And then a few months later our Rose Apple is with a disease and no longer able to fruit.Thes feel gooder's better talk and listen to Mr Keith Robinson who has been trying to establish native plants in the forest that he owns.For the last twenty some what years.He has testified that our endangered plants only way of survival is in a controled invironment like he has created in his nurseries.For some people,they will say and do things for ther best intrest of ther pockets and that is why our world is so _ _ _ _ _ _ up.Tell me why Clidemia is not worst then Guava!!We can make Jams and Jelly with Guava what can we do with the Clidemia?Show me what can grow in a five acre patch of Clidemia that is six feet tall and blocking away 95% of sunlight.I've seen Clidemia grow from direct sunlight to no sunlight under a canopy of Kukui Nut tree's. Nothing can be more invasive then this Clidemia and and then the albizea that wiil take over our entire forest. So again I'll say that the reason for it being the Guava is that the pigs is the real target and the way to get to the pigs is to make it a greater nuisance.
The feel gooder's wanted to bring Igrets to the Islands to help the fly problem on the cattle,but did'nt get facts straight before they brought it here to eat all our Pheasant eggs,green frogs and to top it all,they very seldom ate anything from a cows back.All they do is stay in front of the cattle and eat what the cattle scared out of the grass.Same old story about them trying to be GOD,just a different day.
So I say to you and the rest of the feel gooder's to give us garanteed facts, find a way to stop all invasive plants from coming,then attack none fruiting plants first and most of all stop trying to be GOD.
My feel gooder's list:
1.Siera Club
2.Nature Conservancy
3.Invasive Species Counsel
4.Demacratic Liberal Politicians
5.Humane Society
6.Anybody Who Thinks There GOD.

Aloha,Robert C.

"SOME GO HUNTING,SOME ARE HUNTER'S"

You say there's a lot of HOPE and THEORIES. Sure. I agree. What's wrong with that? ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, GIVE ME FACTS NOT HOPE AND THEORIES, I HAVE ENOUGH OF MY OWN[b] The wrong in that to me is your selling lies (CONTRADICTIONS) to release something that you REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT IT WILL DO IN THE WILD. And have no safety plan in place if it doesnt behave as it supposed to kinda like Britney Spears song....OOPS I DID IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And like I said I guess you didnt hear me the first time..........IF YOU [b]SEEN WHAT I HAVE THEN MAYBE YOU WOULD THINK LONGER AND HARDER. Im not just talking outta my ass here ive been doing this work for a pretty long time, and you know what I ( a non-educated,plain ol everyday person/hunter have seen ALOT of in ALOT of these REALLY EDUCATED people.......COMMON SENSE AINT SO COMMON!!!! But who am I????? Just a dumb ass Hunter who doesnt know anything about plants the mountains etc.

Thats OK I know how to deal with it if it ever gets out here so I'll just deal with it when and if it comes.

Nic you should work with him (Tracey) he could use someone like you.

Aloha!

NIC'
ALL I GOING SAY IS YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE ALL FOR IT SO JUST COME OUT AND SAY IT ,,,,,,AND SHUT DA HELL UP.....DON'T SUGER COAT IT...............SUNSHINE.............................

I've been following this thread since it started and I want to say Big Mahalos to both Nic and Koa Boa. You both bring up valid points, and you both are educating all the rest of us who are reading this that don't have the benefit of your work experiences and backgrounds. I've lived here in Hawaii for 22 years now, and I've been a long time volunteer with Na Ala Hele on both Oahu and Maui as payback for the countless days I've enjoyed our beautiful forests as a hunter, hiker, camper, moutain biker and any other excuse I could find to be in the mountains. I agree that we need more people volunteering and caring for our beautiful aina. My gut feeling and history tells me that introducing another alien species, fungus or whatever, in the hopes of improving our forest is a mistake. But I also want to hear more discussion based on science on the pros and cons of doing something like this. Please gentlemen, keep up your excellent discussion. My hats off to both of you, and if you ever find yourself in Maui, give me a shout---I'd like to buy you both a beer.

Eh Koa Boa, please give me one call.Want to talk to you about whats going on.Need to keep the Kauaians updated about this before they get here on April,29 for the meeting.My # is 651-2965.

Aloha,Robert,C.

Hog Wild, you bring up lots of good points on what we should be doing. And your right however people are already trying to do all of those things. Some things are easier said than done in this world.

Why not get rid of invasive non-fruiting plants first? People have been trying to the best of their abilities with the limited funding available. Once a plant is past a certain point, it is not possible to eradicate, or even contain, without massive $, people, and chemicals. That's when biological controls come in handy. Done responsibly, they are the most powerful tool available to help control pests. A million dollars to research them is nothing compared to the billions of dollars worth of work they can do for free or the millions of dollars that go into slowing down the worst of the forest pests each year. We can credit much of what we enjoy today (and several that we hate) to biological controls of the past . But it's not as easy as it sounds. The guava biocontrol took ten years or more to get as far as it has. All that time went into ensuring it was done properly. And I intend to make sure it is done properly from here on because there must be a backup plan in case it works too well. The scientist believe it will not kill the plants because they could not get it to, even under the most ideal laboratory conditions. But I say there's no harm in having a back up plan anyway to rebuild the forest of guava, just in case they fall into decay and begin to regrow with other weeds. To have one would be only right and if they don't need it, then they wouldn't have to carry it out anyway so no harm done to anyone. But if they do... So if you ever talk to DOFAW agent on your island, please bring up the topic of a back up plan and if they aren't sure it is possible, just tell them that a guy on kauai claims to have proven it doable.

Fact is, this biocontrol for guava is going to have to be released eventually because guava is one of, if not, the worst killer of ramaining native forests and level headed people are always going to prioritize native biodiversity over one fruit tree which does mostly bad and little good besides feed pigs, which do not even require it for good health to begin with. You can't tell me that areas without strawberry guava do not have fat pigs (not everywhere of course). So to oppose it is only going to leave you with no say in the matter. But to work for a common goal, that is to keep everything good about Hawaiian forests intact, both hunting, and native biodiversity, we can make Hawaii a better place or at least preserve it that way for our children. And that is why I am for mitigation measures in case the biocontrol works too well. By mitigation, I mean plans for replanting the guava stands with improved pig forages, or at least trees which will shade out weeds and/or provide future timber. And I know this is possible on small scales-enough to replace the food sources needed and in fact improve them in the long run, guava-biocontrol or not.

Keith Robinson is a very smart man, educated, well spoken and blunt, but is incorrect about the native forests being doomed and has been proved wrong by, sorry to say, the "haole" organizations which successfully preserved vast tracts of native forest on the other islands by adressing key threats and protecting large intact tracts, large enough to hold their own as functioning ecosystems. Watershed partnerships, national parks, the nature conservancy, National Wildlife refuges, and even the military. Without ungulate damage, intact native vegetation tends to have the advantage over all but a select few weeds, including strawberry guava, kahili ginger, clidemia, australian tree fern, miconia, and others depending on which island. Not that they die out completely, but the weeds become integrated as minor components of the forest.

I'm not even going to try convince you, hogwild, that just because two things happen around the same time, that it doesn't mean they are related. You obviously have not researched the rust fungus and don't take the information I gave about it seriously. You try and twist it to fit your own paranoid agenda; that the conservation community is trying to run some grand conspiracy to rid Hawaii of all pigs. And while there are many out there who I'm sure would love that, you are seriously misjudging the people doing forestry work. Many of them are hunters. Even half of TNC staff hunts and love it.

The fungus they were spraying on clidemia established but was not doing much damage. I think you said something about the field workers saying it was some mutation or something...? Yeah, pretty much although instead of mutation, the word "isotope" is used in the docs I've seen. Lately, during this season of wet weather, I have noticed defoliation on clidemia and do not know whether that fungus is to credit or not. You can look it up if you like: Clidemia is one of those cases where it might take a whole suite of biocontrols to reduce its vigor. Take a look and see how many things are attacking it already. It's definitly not in pristine condition. You don't necesarily need to eradicate something to be successful. Just weakening it helps greatly. Here's a link to a page dealing with biological control of clidemia:
review and status of biological control of Clidemia in Hawaii
Heres a quote from that document:
Liothrips urichi was effective in preventing the spread of clidemia
into open pastures and cultivated lands. It did not, however, prove to be
effective in shaded areas (Davis 1969; Reimer 1985) and was thus
ineffective under forest conditions (Davis and Chong 1969)
Here's another link which I have never checked out yet but looks to be an update on all biocontrol efforts underway:
DOA- pest advisories and reports

Bringing up the mistakes of biocontrols past with the egrets, mongoose, or whatevers still does not trump the decades long track record of success.

The garden island posted the notice or the meeting that same morning when they wanted hen to post it four or five days beforehand. Therefore everybody was in a crisis-reaction humbug mood. The next Meetings will take place on big island:
Hilo on Thursday, May 14, at the University of Hawaii at Hilo, Room UCB 127 (the glass room);
and Hawaii Island, Kona on Monday, May 18, at NELHA Gateway Center, Kailua-Kona (near the Kona airport).

These are open house meeting with informative posters showing what it looks like and what they expect it to do and why. Science. and Tracey Johnson and his staff will be there to try and answer questions. If you see DOFAW people standing around, please ask them about backup plans to revegetate guava stands, just in case.

Nic,First of all I'de like to know why you have all these explainations when your hiding behind your computer.Second It seems as though that they have done a great job in brain washing you about all of there feel gooder ways.You say that some things are easier said then done and I say when you do something,Do it right because after its done you can,t change it.I can't even change what I am going to say to you in this post once you've read it.I'm a football coach and what I've always said to my player's is that in life we have no control of the past,Jesus Christ did not come back so we can ask him to change it and Scientist have not invented a time machine so that we may go back and change all the mistakes and bad things that we have done.But as humans we do have control of what we will do in the future, so don't do anything that we will regret and to do things to the best of our ability.Because when you get older you won' be able to go back and change things.
Why have a back up plan if they are so sure?You say level headed people,I say hard headed people.You people all are Liberal thinking people who all think the same.You are the same type of people that think that a child murderer and rapist should have rights just as though a law abiding citizen has.You tend to contredict your statements from Weds. meeting by saying that we may need to replant the Guava stands.Why do we need to replant the Guava stands if You,Tracy Johnsons and the rest of the Feelgooder's all said that you could garranty the guava would not die from this biocontrol method?Why do we need to plant more food for the pigs if the ten percent of fruit that it will bare is enough to keep all the pigs fat?I ask you this then,the people that hunt that are with the TNC,if they had a choice between hunting and the plants,which would they choose? Are they not just hunting to control another Invasive species or do they hunt for subsidy,culture and that ther Family has being doing it for generations.For me hunting has been my way of life since I was born.There was times that there would not be any food on the table if it was'nt part of my life.It still subsidizes a great amount for me still to this day.As I write,there is some Fat mountain meat that is in my roaster.Something that will not have a chance to be without the Fruits that these pigs eat.
You say that Mr. Keith Robinson is smart,educated,well spoken,and blunt.But is incorrect about the native forest being doomed.When he talked that night,he only talked about the biocontrol and how it won't help the native forest to get rid of the guava.And that it has already established a role in our eco system.So what did he talk about that was not smart and educating.First you say that he is smart and educated then you say that he does not know what he is talking about.It seems really that they have truly brainwashed you.Make up your mind, stop and think before you talk in two different directions.It's sounds just like the rest of the liberals,always trying to justify, never being straight to the point and always doing things under the radar. So everything is almost a give me before the people that it will effect finds out.
The information you gave about the rust fungus,can you bet your life on it as to it being 100% garanteed facts or has this information been done by another feel gooder?Again I say how can this so called fungus effect all the Islands spontaneusly? Like it did if it is airborn like you are saying.Most scientist do not believe in our creater God,but seems to want to play he's role when it comes to nature.It seems as though these people and yourself is perfect in your eyes.But if you look into the record about sneeky things being done, about things in nature ,there is'nt a guiltier party.What next? I can bet the Gum Fruit tree will be the next to be attacked by you and the rest of the feel gooder's.But it will be said by you people, that it is more important to get rid of the gum then the Clidemia,Albezia and Cats Claw.That is why I say that your Biggest target is truly the PIG.Someday I will come to you and tell you that I told you so and if not,I'll be sure to make someone give you the message.

With No Aloha, Robert C.

Cuz I get a little flustered when I got angry people yelling in my face.

I not your cuz,if you was you would'nt be acting the way you do.None of my cousins are Liberals.

With No Aloha, Robert C.


"SOME GO HUNTING,SOME ARE HUNTER'S"

Agree!!! Rob,,,,, three years ago i noticed the fungus on the rosie apple trees and this was here on oahu. There is no way that all the islands were tanted with this crap from a bunch of imported flowers to one island and then wack all the islands at the same time!!!! NO WAY!!! it takes time to spread in the wind just to cover 1 island....now all the island went into this at the same time .....sounds like a scheduled release to me!


I think they honestly thought that it wouldnt effect the other NATIVE trees and when it did they covered it up with some imported flowers story. Leave the forest the way it is!!!! if you need to control the gauva then find a different way create jobs to spot clear or something,

Back in the 40s through 60s the city and county created jobs for the local people by hiring them to built the C and C trail system on all the ridges on oahu...you telling me they couldnt do the same to clear gauva in the heavy areas?

They are messing with the balance of things and its only gonna get worse.

I meant "because".

The fungus they were spraying, they have been spraying for some years prior trying to get it established on clidemia in different locations. I believe it to be some some form of Colletochrichum fungus.

The roseapple rust conspiracy isn't so far fetched. After all, they do call it "Guava rust" in florida where it damages common guava orchards, albeit minimally just like here. They also call it "Eucalyptus rust" in Brazil. But, it has been documented on mainland imports. And it would have been at high risk for ariving on imported plants anyway because it attacks many different species and is widespread from florida and california down into south america. So for it to make it here on its own is likely. A fungus with those characteristics would never be considered for a biocontrol by the state or federal agencies, but a private individual... "Guava rust? Hmmmm." That I can see, although I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so it seems much less likely than the other scenario.

About the quick rate of spread, one could argue that because it is on so many species of plants, that it's just about everywhere and with such a huge spore bank, should have an easy time going from island to island either in the air or on cargo. One could also argue that by the time it was noticed, it already had a big headstart. ...OR that some individual somehow managed to smuggle it from north america into Hawaii, without it dying, and then smuggle it from island to island releasing it in numerous locations. Don't you think that anybody who would go through such an effort would know enough about biocontrol to know that it will likely attack dozens of valuable species other than Psidium guajava? And I don't know how anybody could have predicted roseapple. Understandable how hunters could feel that their pig food sources are being targetted seeing one after another lost to pathogens.

So far they, the government got banana poka, and maybe soon strawberry guava. The rust took out roseapple and Downy rosemyrtle seems wounded badly in "some areas". Banana poka has stabilized at 3% of it's original density.

Now all they need to take out is Kukui, ie'ie, hapu'u, common guava, java plum, mountain apple, every species of edible grass, shoebutton ardisia, kiawe, haole koa seedlings, monkeypod, lilikoi, all edible bamboos, koa, avocado, mango, breadfruit, jackfruit, macadamia, and oranges and pigs will be such a huge problem searching for food that there would be a public outcry to poison them all, OR other management options like hutnign coupled with rebuilding food sources in the mountains, this time with non-invasives, so that the pigs and their food sources aren't much of a problem.

The most invasive and distructive species in Hawai'i is not a plant, tree, bug or game animal. It is without a doubt a certain type of HUMAN that came here and and rotted this place like puss. So what should we do? Eradicate? Biocontrol? Import preditors? Of course not! Why? Because then we would be playng God! This is what Hog Wild is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong Hog Wild). I also agree with Koa Boa about common sense aint to common with some people. If for whatever reason we stop getting food shipped here where we going get our food from? The ocean? Oops....gone the fish! It would be stupid to mess with anything edible anywhere on these islands including waiawi. Go with the flow. Like Bruce Lee said, "Be water my friend". Too much cross tread bumby all strip and then burn bearings!! If you really gotta eradicate something why no make yourself useful and figure out how for get rid of cockroaches, mosquitos, fleas, ticks and rats. They aint native! By the way, we've been finding dead pigs in the mountain with no dog bites or bullet holes? Kinda plenty now days. Whats up with that? Seems kinda fishy to me.