Dog Food

KVB Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:00 am

http://www.proplan.com/dry-dog-food/performance-formula/default.aspx

Just as a conversation starter for those interested in this sort of thing. I used Purina Pro-Plan Performance formula in the past and liked it. It probably costs more than most of us would like to spend when faced with having to feed a whole pack of hunting dogs, but if you are just feeding one or two dogs, then it might be something to look into. Again, this is just to get something going as far as a thread or discussion on dog food. I feed Pedigree now. The 52 lb. bags that Costco has. I add a tablespoon of Vigor Plus (like calf manna), a tablespoon of koi pellets with spirulina in it, and about 1/2 teaspoon of flaxseed that I grind up daily with about a cup of water. I like to keep the dogs right at their working weight and hate to see fat dogs on a hot sunny day. I know guys who feed a large amount of bread mixed with dog food out of the bag thats been soaked until the feed is almost a mush. I tried it that way, but I thought the dogs run hot from all that carbs. If I could get eggs real cheap, I'd add 2 boiled eggs to their diet, or 4 oz. of ground beef daily. But thats not really necessary, unless you are trying to build muscle mass, which is where the protein plays a major role. When trying to get the most bang for your buck these days, I find that the big brand name dog foods are a bit too steep in price for most guys with hunting dogs coming out of their ears. Adding canola or corn oil, increases your fat content, for energy and it helps on those long all day hunts. Fat for fuel is where its at, as the carbs tend to burn up a little too soon. But all of this is simply "talkin' story" as our dogs can't read the ingredients on the bag, and they're just as happy grinding Ol' Roy from Walmart as they would stealing your sirloin steak off your dinner table.

KVB Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:45 am

An old timer once told me two things I've held onto regarding some easy to get stuff that has proven to be helpful in a pinch. Have you ever had dogs that cramped up or basically caved in after a long hunt, where you had to throw 'em on your shoulders and pack him/her out? Or have you had dogs heartworm and burned bearings to the max after you waited for so long for it to back track to where you've been scared shitless wondering if you'd ever see that dog again? Chances are, some of us have.

1) Corn starch: A pure carbohydrate. Give a little tablespoon of it with some water out of your camelbak and it ought to help boost its energy levels back up. Not that he'll swim to Haliewa and back, but it ought to give him an extra gear to shift into to make it back to the truck without you having to kick his okole down that red dirt hill.

2) Baking soda: Sodium bicarbonate. Neutralizes acids. In our case, lactic acids, that set in to give our out of shape mutts rubber legs. Its an old bodybuilder's secret. Look at a lot of products out there that are marketed to help this sort of thing, chances are, sodium bicarbonate is amongst the ingredients. About half a teaspoon with some water is what I've given a friends dog, coming out of a valley on the East Side. The dog got up, lit up a joint, offered me a puff and honked it back to the truck.

CAVE CANEM Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:57 pm

I feed Ol Roy and then supplements. I find it to still be cheaper to go this route then it was when I was feeding TOTW!

CAVE CANEM Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:49 am

VBK- I noticed you mention dogs dropping out on you in the bush but you also have videos of your mills working so I was curious what kind of conditioning program are you using? If you rather not post it up, No need I just questioning your results compared to my own!

RustyKnife Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:11 am

I was using the 50# bag of pedigree from costco myself but over time noticed that my dogs werent nutritionally benifiting much from it. A lot of that food is filler and the crude protein was minimal. I recently switched to Purina Red Flannel and within 4 days I dramatically saw a change in coat,shit and weight differences. That pedigree was making the dogs shit real soft, this new purina had made the dogs stool more firm and easier to shoot down the drain! Also ive gotten almost 3 extra days out of a 50#bag. Had to give smaller portion size because within a week, dogs started putting on extra weight. Its about $8 dollars more, i purchase it at the purnia 'Land O Lakes' feed store. Heres the link. http://www.pminutrition.com/main.html

Hunt for the love

Doc

Daniel_Peterson Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:21 am

I feed red flannel hi protein, and supplement dogs with table scraps left overs or if we don't have none, I'll cook up some eggs 3 times a week. On top of regular feeding. Dogs will always be in good shape and I always cut feed when I am not able to hunt like right now, broken truck. I have fed pedigree, but I would always look at my dogs and they were skinnier than I liked and seemed to be lacking some nutrients.

I tried making my own dog food and it worked great just not for 6 dogs. It was 3 eggs, scoop brown rice, 1 potato, 5 1 inch chunks avocado and a handful frozen veggies in a bowl mixed up and cooked in the micro for a minute, per dog. The dogs was always in perfect shape.

steady n' ready Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:40 am

very interesting topic, read a similar topic on another forum, as for me im feeding pedigree the 52lb bag from costco for i think its $24-25 dollars, just because i find it more affording for the dollar, since i have 10 dogs including pups in my yard!!! definitely need to reduce the pack! but am interested in seein if any other dog food out there will benefit my dogs better without having to spend to much dollars more or as doc said feeding less amounts! some dogs benefit more then others with the pedigree im feeding. definitely noticed a couple dogs that could beef up a lil even when im feeding them couple scoops, on the other hand my full grown heeler is a barrel with only one scoop a day. i been feeding my pups purina puppy food with powdered milk as my wallet allows.

RustyKnife Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:24 am

Dog food is hella expensive on island, but I don't know if y'all remember the dog food epidemic few years back. Was just reading not long ago pet food went up some 17% do to demand and production loss. But you can't bargin your pack short for a couple dollas. They work hard, and it's worth paying 10 dollars to have the bag of food last a couple extra days! I have 11 dogs including "pets", i sleep better at night knowing they don't get the shitty kine that just fills'em up ya know? I went from 5 days/50lbs bag to just about 7 feedings for the red flannel high protein. Spend the $8.50 per week, pays off long run!

steady n' ready Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:31 am

doc- i hear ya on that one, thats why it brought my mind to attention on the topic. how much does that dog food your buyin run per bag? not sure if anywhere near by me carrys that, ill have to check with the local feedstores to see what they carry. tried one from a feed store that wasnt great, but will look more into it now!

RustyKnife Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:43 am

I spend about $33 or $35 one or the other on the red flannel. Any purina dealer should be able to get it to you no more than that.

steady n' ready Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:57 am

doc-ok, will look into it, thanks alot

KVB Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:40 am

It's nice to see this conversation taking place. And to read everyone's posts.

As far as the conditioning that I do. My main objective is to improve a dog's cardio. I do it with wind sprints on a slat mill. The dogs run full blast at top speed or as fast as they can. I work the dogs in sets or intervals. In the beginning it might just be a minute of all out sprinting. Over time, the interval time increases, to say, five minutes. I don't keep running a dog for long periods of time. I just add another set. If they were just trotting which is less demanding and slower, then I would extend their sets to maybe half an hour. But thats not what I'm interested in gaining as a result of the conditioning I'm doing.

I'm trying to get the dog to be able to go real hard and recover real fast. Because running out of air often means losing one's hard bite. And without hard bite, its hard to hold on to a bad ass boar with shanks thats dead serious about laying your pack out. I don't like dogs with rubber jaws. That bite and let go. Well sometimes, they are letting go because they are sucking air. They've run out of gas.

Dogs suffer from the same ol' shit. Day in day out. So its nice to change it up a bit. Cross training. I use a flirtpole and again, I work the dogs in sets. And let them recover. And then work them again. I keep the hide close to the ground or drag it across the dirt. I want these dogs to be agile and swift. All this adds to firing up a dog's prey drive. They love chasing things and then sinking their teeth into them. But like everything else. They either got it or they don't. Some dogs would rather just hunt all day than put up with all of this conditioning non-sense I put them through.

I used to rely heavily on a carpet mill because its an excellent way to help build a dogs wind and his rear end. He needs that to push forward against whatever is in front of him. A boar or a sow. Some dogs just sort of take a ear hold and go with the flow, until the boar just gives in from exhaustion. And some dogs just keep scratching straight and true. Always pushing forward, with hard mouths. Adding air to these barnstorming type of dogs is what I'm interested in. They tend to give it their all, and if they aren't in shape, they too, can run out of gas, just because they are trying so damn hard.

No amount of conditioning will turn a scrub dog that you should have gotten rid of into your main dog or an ace hunting dog. I believe that taking your dogs hunting is the best conditioning for a dog. We can only hope to mimic what they would have naturally, if they lived their lives in the mountains and hunted each and everyday of their lives. But our dogs aren't wild. They might not be pets in the conventional sense, but we are still charged with the responsibility of looking out for their best interests.

In reality, they are the true hunters. We feed, we pick up their poop. We stick things around their necks and load them onto the back of our trucks. And we get to tell the stories, post our pictures, share our videos. And hog all the glory. But the dogs know who is who. And so should we.

So, thats why the topic of food and supplements is another area worth discussing. Thanks to everyone that posted a reply. And for sharing your thoughts and ideas. Nothing is set in stone. If tomorrow, a million dollars ended up in my bank account, I'd probably feed my dogs a lot differently. We all need to live within our means. With rent due, cell phone bills, electric, water and what have you, we need to work toward finding the little things that can make our dogs lives a little better. Maybe some B-12? Siberean gingseng? Zmass? Metabolol 2, Vertex, or whatever. It might mean 2 handfuls of oatmeal, some greens, a clove of garlic, fish oil, and it might mean paying that extra 8 bucks or so for that better brand that you can feed less of. Its all good. If we make it so.

KVB Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:11 pm

http://www.healthwisepetfood.com/products/default.asp?panel=ga&id=545

KVB Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:14 am

Once upon a time I sat on the phone picking the brains of a man who lived in Mansfield, Texas which is part of the Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex where catch dogs were used to round up steer, and on weekend hunts.

We talked a lot that hot summer day, when folks like him missed work, and sat on their porches and watched the steam rise from their dogs water buckets, always ready to run out with rubber hoses to make sure their dogs wouldn't die in the heat wave that swept through that day.

We talked about feeding a catch dog and he told me I should give Bil Jac a try as it had a way of making a dog nice and strong.
Here is a link to what he was referring to on that hot Texas day.

http://www.biljacfrozen.com/why_frozen.php

hayn/auzzi Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:47 am

can anybody tell me if giving your dog all these diets and supplements has actually helped you to catch more pig.

KVB Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:03 am

hayn/auzzi wrote:can anybody tell me if giving your dog all these diets and supplements has actually helped you to catch more pig.

Yes, but you gotta be feeding the right dogs.

steady n' ready Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:49 am

if you think about it, its just like everything else in life. just like a car that requires super gasoline and you put regular in it, it does tend to not run as smooth, and aint gonna be any better for the engine. hard to put it in words for a dog, but i believe the dog would be feeling better especially on a all day hunt with the right nutrients hes consuming in his body, to make him have more energy, recover muscle, coat as well....altho im not to sure of the price differences from oahu to bigisland on dog food, but i did my fare share of calling around and pricing out some of these dog foods like purina pro plan performance $50something/35lb bag, couldnt find diamond but found a dog food made by diamond called 4health for $39.99/35lb bag, and i believe taste of the wild was also up there around $50something/35lb bag. Alot of places i called do not carry any of these dog foods including red flannel which i didnt come across yet, as "jusacruzah" mentioned hpm use to carry diamond, dels feed supply carries taste of the wild, and 4health by diamond. purina pro plan at petco. still have yet to look around or call other places and see, so im keeping my eyes open. but at the rate this is going i dont think i can afford that much of a price difference compared to pedigree 52lb bag at costco for 24.99? if anyone knows who carries any of these dog foods here on the bigisland plz lmk, thanks. Definitely interested on tryin one of the few dog foods i have in mind if i can find a place with a better price!!! if not i think ill stick to pedigree for now, if anything just add some supplements.

KVB Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:48 am

steady n' ready wrote:if you think about it, its just like everything else in life. just like a car that requires super gasoline and you put regular in it, it does tend to not run as smooth, and aint gonna be any better for the engine. hard to put it in words for a dog, but i believe the dog would be feeling better especially on a all day hunt with the right nutrients hes consuming in his body, to make him have more energy, recover muscle, coat as well....altho im not to sure of the price differences from oahu to bigisland on dog food, but i did my fare share of calling around and pricing out some of these dog foods like purina pro plan performance $50something/35lb bag, couldnt find diamond but found a dog food made by diamond called 4health for $39.99/35lb bag, and i believe taste of the wild was also up there around $50something/35lb bag. Alot of places i called do not carry any of these dog foods including red flannel which i didnt come across yet, as "jusacruzah" mentioned hpm use to carry diamond, dels feed supply carries taste of the wild, and 4health by diamond. purina pro plan at petco. still have yet to look around or call other places and see, so im keeping my eyes open. but at the rate this is going i dont think i can afford that much of a price difference compared to pedigree 52lb bag at costco for 24.99? if anyone knows who carries any of these dog foods here on the bigisland plz lmk, thanks. Definitely interested on tryin one of the few dog foods i have in mind if i can find a place with a better price!!! if not i think ill stick to pedigree for now, if anything just add some supplements.

Right on, brah. I feed Pedigree too. Out of the 52 lb. bags from Costco. I add a couple of other things like Vigor Plus which is pretty much the same thing as calf manna which is harder to get these days, I'm not even sure if they still make it. Its like milk for calves. It helps them to grow. The stuff is good for making sure your dogs don't get too thin on you. And you don't need a lot of it.

Nobody's saying you have to feed the more expensive stuff or that you gotta buy all those supplements. The average housewife shops at Macy's and the ones that can afford it go to Paris or Milan to get their rocks off. I'm the average housewife kind of guy.

Common sense and not always wanting to impress others is the best way to run a good pack. I have a friend who grew up with me in the hood. He goes to a store that sells damaged freight items to buy the busted up dog food bags real cheap. Whatever brand they have, he buys it. Takes it home and feeds his dogs. He's being doing that forever and he catches a lot of pigs.

Some friends of mine stop by our neighborhood school to pick up slop every day and they feed nothing else but that all school year long. And they catch a lot of pigs. And they save a lot of hard earned money.

Others go down to the local butcher shop and ask for "sawdust" - bone shavings that has pieces of ground meat mixed in it and they add it to their dry dog food. So, when it boils down to it, every body has their own way of doing things. And if it works, why change it?

CAVE CANEM Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:49 pm

Yellow Leg Black Spur wrote:
hayn/auzzi wrote:can anybody tell me if giving your dog all these diets and supplements has actually helped you to catch more pig.

Yes, but you gotta be feeding the right dogs.

Hayn/Auzzi- I put more confidence in my training than I do the food or supplements but supplementing should equal to you taking your daily vitamins which should make you last longer and feel better compared to someone identical but not taking their vitamins. All the supplements in the world ain't gonna make my Jamba track but he can stop um all day till you load him back up! All in all, It should be a better day!

steady n' ready Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:11 pm

Rajah dat hayn. My inlaws pick up slop daily for our domestic pigs. So I feed my dogs meat when I can. The sawdust is good to build them dogs that are pullin down back up!

hayn/auzzi Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:13 am

Jusacruzah wrote:
Yellow Leg Black Spur wrote:
hayn/auzzi wrote:can anybody tell me if giving your dog all these diets and supplements has actually helped you to catch more pig.

Yes, but you gotta be feeding the right dogs.

Hayn/Auzzi- I put more confidence in my training than I do the food or supplements but supplementing should equal to you taking your daily vitamins which should make you last longer and feel better compared to someone identical but not taking their vitamins. All the supplements in the world ain't gonna make my Jamba track but he can stop um all day till you load him back up! All in all, It should be a better day!

Right on! I jus was looking for some personal experience with supplementing. I do care about my dogs health and all, but its more so the results that I'm concerned with. As far as supplementing, that topic can turn into a great debate so I'll leave it alone. Mahalo!

MAUKAKANE1 Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:05 am

What do you want to accomplish with diet and supplements?
Its good to think about the overall health of our animals, its our responsibility.
Issues of endurance, strength, longevity, joint stress, overheating, whatever physical can be remedied by intake to some degree.
Hayn/auzzi brought up a good point though. Some readers may be following this with the idea that these things might just catapult their dogs into superstar ace status within a few weeks. It will not.
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird are just a few examples of legendary superstars within the NBA. Sure they lost games but in the bigger picture they win more often than not. They are high percentage athletes. Why? They have an intangible factor within them for the sport they perform in. Does it come down to breeding? Did Mr. and Mrs. Jordan say to themselves...you have this trait and I have that trait, so if we have a child I believe we will create the greatest basketball player the world has ever known. ....not likely.Did they feed baby Mike the best grub they could get everyday from childhood to the day he got drafted? Probably not. What I'm getting at is God-givin talent. Even if MJ ate burgers and fries all the time he would still be a powerhouse. I know he didnt and he had personal chefs and trainers taking care of nutrition, which also helped but only to a small degree. He was born for the task. An innate, God- givin ability. Born champion.
Aces, powerhouses that stop even the most cunning jets in their tracks arent much different than Jordan, Bryant or any of the greats. They just rise above all others making it look like a walk in the park while others are just good or even average. Should these good or average guys supplement themselves to compete with the greats? They could try and probably have... But no amount of nutrition, vitamins etc can get them to that status. It is just not in them. Thats nature , thats life.
An ace stopping dog can do it week after week on leftovers from dinner, to the most posh of dog foods available. It doesnt matter, the ability is there. Im not knocking those wanting better nutrition for the dogs or wanting to try supplements. You'll have healthier dogs no doubt. But if all we needed to do was proper nutrition everyone and their brother would have aces.
Dont fret, there is something that can be done aside from nutrition.

Less talkin an mo walkin! Hit em up suckaaaz

MAUKAKANE1

steady n' ready Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:15 am

rajah that uncle! good point and good words...im plannin on doing some walkin n less talkin tomorrow with BJ! see how his feet move in the forest...

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