Big Island Video News - Hunters

Thank you VBK, I been awaiting this video to be posted! Was a very eye opening meeting for me to attend and get to see first hand some "Haole tactics" used by the people holding these meetings!

Much mahalo VBK, video was heavy and opens up your eyes. Every Hawaiian, hunter or not should take a look at it! Even those like me who ain't even from BI. Alohas

My Braddah blue mountain it's f***cked up what I read from your post . It's happening on all islands and growing bigger . That is why the law suit is so important we have to stop them now right now, not in the furture or when we get time the time is now. It f*** cks me up to come on this hunting forum n view how people thinking what's most important , dog for sale or a pig someone caught . To me I look also , but I cannot stress enough to everybody we losing everything ,private n public no matter they want it all for the private special few who don't care about Hawaii or the laws put in place to protect cultural,traditional and religious beliefs of the Hawaiian people who these lands and animals are tied into together . They cannot take it away from us n leave us with no self worth . Would be like taking all the bibles n the world away. Thank u for your support and I am on people in oahu to help n also asking all islands they need to go above n beyond And stand up. Sad bro when they get it all all we will have left is dogs for sale n pictures n videos n no place to hunt on our lands .
Joe

Joe, how do you respond to the person who wrote this comment to the video?

Sad wrote: Somewhere in the battle displayed on this video between conservationists and hunters we have lost sight of who we are as Hawaiians. We are a people who voyaged thousands of miles to land area abundant with native plants and animals which are found no where else in the world. This is a fact. These plants and animals were so revered that they were deified and became part of our amazing culture. It saddens me to see comments like those made by Scott above which questions where the Alala fits into the Hawaiian culture. Every native plant and animal weaves together into the network which comprised part of the Hawaiian culture, its traditions and its practices. Every plant, every animal, every traditional place name, every mele and oil we loose means we loose one more connection to who we are as Hawaiians. We have lost enough.

Stop it hunters, stop it conservationists, and stop it Hawaiians. It is time to stop arguing and work together. Start trying to see the good in one another rather then using projects like these to gain power. We need our native species and we need hunting opportunities, lets look for compromises. I attended the meeting and didnʻt want to speak because of the intimidating mob-like tactics that the Hilo folks brought. Sadly most of the people speaking had not bothered to learn about the project, read any of the posters or the materials given and then made many personal, irrelevant and at times, out of order comments.

I felt sad. Sad for the way people handled themselves at the meeting, sad for the lack of value people have for our forests and sad that this is the way Kaʻu was represented. The majority of those who spoke were outsiders, the same ones that come to our fishing spots in their fancy trucks and take all the fish but leave their line and lead to choke our reefs. The same ones who come and leave their McDonalds rubbish in the forest, take our pigs but bring new invasive species to take over our forests. They come and leave us to clean up their mess and then complain when someone is trying to come and help us better care for and manage our lands.

Lastly, to the comment that these meetings should have been held statewide, my question is why? We, the Kaʻu community are the ones who will be affected. We will be the ones who feel the impact and we are the ones who will deal with the consequences in the years to come.

Everyone should read all the comments to the video. There should be compromise and understanding and respect. The proposed fenced areas is the most remote 1/5 of the forest reserve. Do you consider that too much to ask? Why???

I've read a few of the posts that Nic Barca has contributed onto this forum in regards to the issues at hand, namely the fencing of acres of land and animal eradication which the issue of animal aerial eradication is tied to. It seems to me that Nic is a fairly well read person and I gather that he is involved in some way, shape or form with both hunting and conservation. I also have been in a similar position myself. I worked for a time at KAHEA: The Hawaiian Environmental Alliance. Along with the responsibilities of being its office manager/administrative assistant, I had the responsibility of doing outreach work in the community. You could see me at public events with a table and a tent handing out fliers and urging people to support and protect the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands and the Hawaiian Monk Seal, Protecting Sacred Sites like Mauna Kea, Stopping Cruise ships from dumping their human fecal waste into Hawaiian water, GMO's etc.

A close friend of mine who was interested in fishing as an industry as opposed to subsistence fishing thought that our stance in banning fishing in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands was too uncompromising. So that put me on the opposite side of the fence as far as fishing in that area. I didn't create policy. I only advocated for what we as individuals and as an organization and its allies believed was right. Policies at that level are made on another level. In this case, in Washington, D.C. The then president, Bush Junior, turned the area into some sort of national protected area.

So, what we have here is Nic responding to a video that illustrates opposition to the proposed project. Which in my estimation, is a perfectly healthy thing to do (the opposition). Regardless of how uncomfortable someone might feel. And I don't mean to be insensitive nor do I condone or promote harsh and volatile behavior, as it makes the long, arduous task of resolving issues democratically, with full participation of a county or state's constituents even harder. It is process, that we are witnessing here. And it should be encouraged. Not discounted or marginalized.

I think we can agree upon that.

But at some point in time, the question must be asked. Who is Nic Barca? And what is he driving at? Whose side is Nic Barca on anyway? From what I can ascertain he doesn't seem to align himself with the hunters in Ka'u. He hasn't shown any indication that he will align himself with those in the island wide community of ours who oppose such proposals and projects that encroach upon public lands, native and local culture and traditions and weighs in on the elements of race, class and culture.

Humanitarians who rush off to disenfranchised places, like war torn Africa, often wear the dubious mask of the colonizer. "We're from the US and we are here to help you poor people. But let us show you how the game is played, our way." Where is Nic Barca from? How long has he been here? We need to know who our friends and allies are. And they should present themselves truthfully. You know what side of the issue I've chosen to support. Which side does Nic Barca stand on?

Sometimes the person who is least affected by an issue like those who have situated themselves comfortably in the vertical alignment of race, class and culture as it exists now, try to impose their view of the world upon others, whose lives are directly affected by the very issues that we are confronted with.

As a gentleman, I am sure that Nic Barca will appreciate my concern. I am not attacking Nic Barca, but am addressing our hunting community at large. From South Point to Hanalei. There doesn't seem to be a moderator on this forum. And I am not trying to incite an argument here. I am saying these thing so that the people who haven't made up their minds yet will get a chance to think about things and make their own decisions about the kind of life that would want down the road. Because this in time may be viewed as a landmark case. And the outcome whatever it will be, will affect our lives.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the staff and management of this forum. Nor do they reflect those of KAHEA: The Hawaiian Environmental Alliance. They are purely my comments, opinions and/or facts.

Mister Nic Barca, everytime I see you on this forum, you sound just like these "AMERICANS". What side of the fence do you play on????? I always laugh when I see you post on this forum and try to sound like you know what you talking about and Bradda Muns (sorry Munsta for bringing your name into this!) come on here and make you sound like these "AMERICANS"!!!! I tired see your posts already and just had to write something!!! You ask 1/5 of the forest reserve??? Any piece of the forest reserve is too much! What next? 1/5 more.....then 1/5 more and so on till there's nothing left! You should go find your own "AMERICAN" forum to boast your knowledge on and leave this forum to the people who really care about what's being taken away!!! You "AMERICANS" should compromise, understand, respect our way of life, culture and rights!!!!! Stop acting like you part of us hunters, cause you sound just like them hypocrites! Again sorry Munsta for bringing you into this, but just had to write something after seeing this post by Mister Barca. I went to the Kau meeting. The video and news coverage made it sound like we were bullying them! But if you were there in person and saw the real testimonies, you would have seen and heard people that are very compassionate about what is happening to our way of life and culture. I'm not from Kau or from the Big Island. Born and raised in Makaha and now live on the B.I. I no have to live in Kau to see what is going on cause it's been going on for a loooong time. That's why everybody fighting for spots on Oahu to hunt. It's the whole state guys n gals!!!! If lands keep being taken away, where will we be able to hunt in the future???? Just a side note! It's also happening to our oceans guys!!!! Wake up and pay attention! Just my 2cents and emotions coming out. My name is Mark and if anybody like talk story, call me up 960-1726

P.S. These "AMERICANS" should stop trying to play GOD and let mother nature takes its course!!! Let her do her job

Nic we are at odds, and as I got older in life I realized whether u n I can reason or not I feel I try with people until I no can then I wash my hands . 1) Palikapu is from Kau his mom is the one used as cultural expert in Kau n she is not and Palikapu will tell you so 2) all hunters agree we have plants n birds that need to be protected. But when u come in and take thousands of acres under the disguise of keeping and protecting a pristine Hawaiian forest and by DLNR own mouth SAYS WE CANNOT REMOVE THE INVASIVE PLANTS ONCE WE REMOVE THE ANIMALS we ask a very simple question if u cannot why are u allowed to take more?3) Alala(crow) they have had and taken over the years 4 different large areas to release the Alala (crow) all FAILED ATTEMPTS NOT ONE SUCCESS NOT ONE SUCCESS. By evidence if you where at the Kau hearing I read the letter from retired wildlife biologist Myles Nakahara he wrote to Karen Rosa US fish n wildlife services Dec 3,1999 Do u remember what there evidence said ? He writes ,I feel that under the circumstances ,NO ACTION should be taken until some success in the Alala release program at the present site is accomplished . I should post this letter in case u forgot . All there failed attempts where restructured to kill animals n never give back the land once they f***ck it up ,not one EVER GIVEN BACK. 4) sorry if u felt intimidated you must be weak at heart , if u call that mob like tactics u need to get out more or grow some balls ,NOBODY GOT OUT OF LINE TO SWEAR OR FIGHT WITH NOBODY ,EVEN DLNR MADE A COMMENT THIS WAS THE MOST BEHAVED I EVER SEEN IN KAU HUNTING MEETING . Nic can you guarantee Kau not going to lose there land just like every other land that has been taken throughout the state ,no you can't n don't even try .Can u guarantee our kids and our future kids will have grounds to hunt ,no u can't . Excuse me if I offended you but you need to open your eyes n get your head out of your ass because we are going to fight to keep these lands bottom line even if you don't like it . As far as people not picking up there rubbish that is on them each man is held accountable to his or her actions . Never ever has there been a game management plan with a carrying capacity of animals ? Like I said excuse me if I offended you if you take my comments in a mob like tactic .
Joe

Race??? Class??? Really??? Race and Class don't make the Hunter or the Conservationist, or give anyone a monopoly about caring for what happens to da forest or or da keikis. Race and class get no more NOTHING to do with the discussion of fencing the Kau Forest, and only makes it harder for everyone to sit down and rationally discuss why the forest should or should not be fenced. Mahalo Joe and Nic both, for talking about the ISSUES and not just throw names and insults at each other. Thats the kind of discussion that everyone needs to bring to the table, and is going to be successful in the long run.

crow?more propaganda.

Race??? Class??? Really??? Race and Class don't make the Hunter or the Conservationist, or give anyone a monopoly about caring for what happens to da forest or or da keikis. Race and class get no more NOTHING to do with the discussion of fencing the Kau Forest, and only makes it harder for everyone to sit down and rationally discuss why the forest should or should not be fenced. Mahalo Joe and Nic both, for talking about the ISSUES and not just throw names and insults at each other. Thats the kind of discussion that everyone needs to bring to the table, and is going to be successful in the long run. - Misadventure Gear

You may be right from your perspective, MG. But I include RACE and CLASS because it is something very few people ever consider to be things that can or may have influence and impact in the way the institutions operate that affects their lives often functions. You have responded to a thread I started by posting the link to viewing the video. In the ensuing conversation that includes divergent points of view, your own mana'o is being considered and heard. There was something said about informational DVD's that were handed out at the Ka'u meeting to kupuna that had attended. An observer who was there commented that he/she thought that it would have been better if they had gone to greater lengths to explain what their proposed project would entail, encompass and as one may put it, go over the selling points of the project and in the process be open to queries of what the downside might be. Doubt was raised that some of the kupuna there and others as well may have no way of viewing the DVD's in their homes. In saying this I am not suggesting or alleging that the proponents of the project were trying to elude having to do what would be expected from them, to "educate" the Ka'u community as I stated earlier, about the project.

The issue at hand is not a black and white issue between hunters and conservationists. And while RACE and CLASS do not make the hunter or the conservationist, which I never claimed to begin with, if you were to go back and read what I wrote instead of having a reactionary response. Reactionary responses at 1:12 in the morning are understandable. In a Hawai'i that hosts both native peoples and settlers, RACE, CLASS and CULTURE has always been factors that our lives have been built around. Do not for a moment think that we are living in a place where that these elements do not exist. And do not doubt at some point they intersect to shape the way we interact with each other and come to consensus, however begrudgingly in some instances. Again, I point out that what we see is "process".

In a case such as this one, it is expected that there will be opposing viewpoints. I don't have a crystal ball to foresee the outcome. We can only hope that a balance will be struck that takes into consideration both the need to protect habitat and its inhabitants, the native flora and fauna and the needs of hunters and gatherers.

There is a push on the Big Island toward increasing food self-sufficiency. Considering the economic times it would benefit everyone of all walks of lives to do what they can to move in that direction, there and elsewhere in the state. Hunters are responsible of bringing thousands of pounds of meat to the dinner table, which lessens the dependency on outside sources. Big Island ranches send a large percentage of their stock to the continental US to be fattened and sold. Sugar grown here at one time was sent to California to be refined and resold here. Using up more fossil fuels. And driving up costs.

I'm not sure if I've explained my inclusion of RACE and CLASS well enough, Misadventure Gear. If it is understood, fine. But if its a bone of contention for you. Then so be it. Its your bone to pick.

To sad...... You ask " why should these meetings be held state wide? " ....because this is the strength.. And if this is successful then we here on Oahu have a chance to reopen access to the mountains I have grown up in. Sad to say that between bishop estate Dole the army and private land owners we here on Oahu have had our hunting grounds taken away. Don't let it get to that point there.

And as an AMERICAN I have the same believes u do shrek. I don't think you can speak for all Hawaiians so I won't speak for all Americans.

Bottom line aloha is not taken seriously at these meetings and compassion is always taken as hostile but hostility always makes a point. No one remembers the quiet soft spoken person trying to make a point.

Also this state is so f$%king politically correct that it stops things that need to be done from being done they are so worried about MINOR THINGS..........If it was intended for these fragile plants and animals to live than they would! Nature can't support The weak bottom line . Even without human intervention nature insures the strongest to survive.

I think the title really above really describes this entire situation.

I think somebody might have asked so here's who i am and what I believe:

I, Nicolai Barca, was born on Maui and at the age of 5 moved to the north shore of Kauai, pretty much living in Kilauea for the next 20 years. I grew up a fisherman and at age 16 transitioned more to archery hunting and then dog hunting. I filmed for many years and made websites which gained me notoriety. Traveling to remote back country areas brought me into contact with native plants and I soon developed a passion for growing them. This led me to switch college majors in Hilo from Aquaculture to one of Native Forest Management. I made good impressions during internships and lined myslef up with a job with The Nature Conservancy's new Kauai Program. So here I am today (note that in no way do I represent the views and opinions of my employer, although inevitably I do). I'm somewhat biased, admittedly, because I get to hunt for a living- which sort of takes the fun out of it.

What side of the fence do I sit on? Neither. I believe there is plenty of room for both hunting and fences/forest protection to coexist. Hunting will always exist across the majority of Hawaii. Dofaw management guidelines and Rainfall follows the forest has pretty much mapped these areas out. I believe parts of (not all) the native forest is threatened by uncontrolled animal numbers (and other factors too), so until enough areas are fenced or threats adressed, I will support fencing on a case by case basis. There are so few fences really (except Big island and maui), so I support most new ones. As soon as I feel there is enough, I will flip. I also believe that many native plants can coexist with animals so long as they are in check. That's where I support the Game Management Plan idea, although I'm not certain it is necesary. On the Big island, you guys get choke fences already. I'm not dead set for this one, but I think it should be up to the people of Ka'u because they will be the ones benefitting or living witht eh impacts. Honestly, I'm not sure I support the fencing and eradication of sheep on mauna kea either. Really I'm just trying to find balance. And knowing the realities of fencing, the costs, the challenges, I'm not at all worried that they will fence more than 20% of forest reserves. People would flip bricks if they did just like you guys are on Big Isle are now.

The ideal place to fence, in my opinion is remote areas where hunting will be less impacted. To me, the Ka'u area was the ideal place. I dont mean to cause tension. I want to do the opposite. But when I see misleading statements like "the state is trying to take your land" I must say something. I understand why guys may be saying it, I just don't agree. People would still be allowed to go there. Except there would be no animals to hunt, but get more to the forest than just animals. I understand that to the average hunter, the pigs and game are what they love in the forest! I feel that same love! It's boring without them! But there is more to the forest than just meat. There's maile, koa, water, birds, wood, etc.. I'm not really gung ho to remove pigs either. Wild Cattle are my main concern. ...Funny how when you get rid of the cattle, blame then passes to the next best thing- the pig. I don't nessesarily agree with that.

To me the underlying issue is ACCESS. Somebody said to me about the video "man, these guys are so angry, you'd think the pigs were endangered, not forest birds." And that is exactly true, sort of. It is a matter of endangered access VS endangered species. I'd like to use my position to help save both.

Sorry. I read comments earlier and thought about it and when I got home, I wrote this without rereading anything. Don't like controversy too much. I'm both drawn to it and it stresses me out.

THAT'S WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID YOU SPEAK WITH A FORK TONGUE!!! YOU SAY ONE THING AND THEN COME BACK JUSTIFYING THE ACTIONS BY THE STATE... I SAW THROUGH YOU A LONG TIME AGO!!!

Thanks Nic. There is a saying "I rather have an honest enemy than a fake friend." I have a better understanding about who you are
and where you stand as an individual and as one who is employed by the Nature Conservancy.

Would it be possible for you to, for the benefit of those of us who have no clue as to what the Nature Conservancy is about, inform us
about what its mission statement is, its goals and objectives, its reason for being here in Hawai'i? Does it promote and advocate
acquiring more land and the subsequent fencing of such land? How is the land acquired? Is it privately owned lands that gets transferred into
Nature Conservancy's hands or is it public lands? Or both? If so, how does that occur? Who bankrolls the purchase of lands, if that is the case?

As a hunter you must know the circumstances in which many of us, as hunters, endure. Only a small percentage of land is available to us as Public Hunting Areas. The privatization of lands further compounds the problem, making even more land inaccessible to hunters. Hunting organizations such as hunting clubs have for many years attempted to make headway into opening up more land for hunting activities.

In consideration of this I am hoping that in whatever capacity that you may have, both as a private individual and one who works for the Nature Conservancy, have the empathy and understanding of what may be fueling the fear of more lands being "taken away". What we have here may be
described as a clash of cultures. One that seeks to preserve it, and one that seeks to live it. We, as hunters, want to "live" our culture. Not have it stored in some museum, or have the continual denial of available lands upon which to hunt.

In regards to your contributions and posts and my response to it. I hope you did not personalize it. Some things need to be brought out into the open. I was under the impression that you were attempting to subvert or undermine the grassroots efforts of those in our community that have and continue to champion or support the idea of not having more lands fenced in and the eradication of animals.

As a licensed hunter in this state and a former member of a hunting club, I remain, steadfast in the desire to have more lands made available
for hunting. With the ever increasing amount of hunters hunting in available hunting areas, we know that the pigs are often found in the most remote areas. Many of us who hunt refer to it as hunting way "in the back" or as some may say, "to da blues". Or "up da bull's ass". So, conflict may be found in the proposed project of fencing and eradication in remote parts of the mountain as we see in Ka'u.

We feel that we have contributed in many ways to managing the feral pig problem. I, along with countless others, have helped with the setting of box traps in residential areas to help curb the population of feral pigs and to minimize the damage they can and often do to homeowner's backyards and gardens. Those of us who have done so, have done so without compensation from the state or the homeowners. We know of the efforts of hiking clubs, Na Ala Hele and other organizations to help stem the tide of the ever present invasive species problem and I know of individual hunters who after working five days a week will on their days off, shoulder a weed whacker and a gallon of gas into hard to reach areas, to "cut trail" or maintain access routes to both hiking and hunting areas. Without pay and without fanfare. All from the love of the sport and their respect for the mountain.

Thanks for taking the time to let us know what your back story is. And if possible, let us know what's up with the Nature Conservancy.

VBK, my only "bone of contention" is to ecourage everyone keep the discussion productive and respectful of all people. My comments were not aimed only at you, but EVERYONE reading the thread. Please be assured that I carefully read all the comments several times, and thought about what I was saying for some time before and during the time I took to type and post a reply. (In fact, as I have been typing this, three more replys have been posted, including one by you. All of them have been more respectful of each other's positions.....which was my goal in my first post.) As was pointed out recently, there are no Moderators on the board right now. But that does not mean that each and everyone of us who are here are excused from a responsibility to keep the discussion civil and respectful. Actually, the opposite is true. Each and every one of us has a reponsibilty to be respectful, even if we disagree with someone, AND to encourage others to be as well. All of us are the moderators....

The point I was trying to make is that it does not matter whether you are Hawaiian, Portugese, Filipino, Caucasian, Japanese, or whatever bloodline you like claim. Yes, Hawaii is a melting pot of many races, cultures, and heritages, and we all see it every day. But everyone of us who has read or gotten involved in this discussion are here because we love, value, and Malama the 'Aina. Your race does not make you pono, your thoughts, words and actions do. This is why race does not belong in this discussion...because it is not a race issue.

Same with Class ("people having the same social, economic, or educational status," according to Wikipedia)...it's also not really the issue. No one is saying (or thinking, or implying, or whatever word you choose) that we need to close the forest, fence and eradicate, because the Poor (or Hawaiian, or whatever label you choose) people are relying on it to feed themselves. I am one of many who has had to rely on da 'aina to feed my family after I lost my job. The fact that I am not rich (or that others get choke $$$) is also not really relevant to this discussion. I realize that it seems like those with the $$$ get what they want, and that lack of $$$ can make it hard for someone to get "justice" in todays legal and politcal system. A prime is example is the money that Pele Defence Fund is trying to raise right now. Their lawsuit is gonna take choke $$$. For them to raise that money, they are going to need the support of a large and diverse community.....

Culture is relevant....Whatever is done with the forest needs to respect the cultural beliefs of the public (Hawiian, Hunter, Conservationist, Hippie, or whatever) and everyone's voice needs to be heard....and listened to....and their point of view given respectful consideration.

so basically, the point I am trying to make is that all of us--as Hunters, as Hawaiians, or more simply as Concerned People--need to be respectful of everyone who comes to the table. If you wish to see your point of view (no matter what side of the issue it is) be seriously considered as a reasonable solution, you need to focus on building consensus and getting as many people as you can to agree.....throwing out insults, or inflammatory remarks is not gonna help you make friends. Leave Race and Class out of it. Trying to tie the fate of Ka'u Forest Reserve to Race or Class is only going to divide your support base. Why shoot yourself in the foot? Again, my comments are aimed at EVERYONE, not just you.

In your post, you said that my mana'o is being heard and considered.....THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. That---and that you also consider the mana'o of people you disagree with--- is all I ask....

I read you as a educated young man and misinformed on what is taking place here.If you like i would speak with retired wildlife biologist Myles Nakahara and ask him if he would inform you of the intent of these land grabs and the bottom line of how its creating a harm all over Hawaii.The position you have i see your concerns, but i see it much clearer on the DLNR, NARS PROGRAM,NATURE CONSERVANCY,SIERRA CLUB,THREE MOUNTAIN ALLIANCE intent two have these lands .Myles been in the picture 40 years and was there from the start of this madness.But its totally up to you.And by the way i am no expert our do i have a PHD behind my name our do i want anybody to think i am. My expertise comes from being a 50 yr old man n hunted my whole life and know the truth behind the scenes. Your choice.Joe

[quote=[color=black]"Misadventure Gear"]VBK, my only "bone of contention" is to ecourage everyone keep the discussion productive and respectful of all people. My comments were not aimed only at you, but EVERYONE reading the thread. Please be assured that I carefully read all the comments several times, and thought about what I was saying for some time before and during the time I took to type and post a reply. (In fact, as I have been typing this, three more replys have been posted, including one by you. All of them have been more respectful of each other's positions.....which was my goal in my first post.) As was pointed out recently, there are no Moderators on the board right now. But that does not mean that each and everyone of us who are here are excused from a responsibility to keep the discussion civil and respectful. Actually, the opposite is true. Each and every one of us has a reponsibilty to be respectful, even if we disagree with someone, AND to encourage others to be as well. All of us are the moderators....

The point I was trying to make is that it does not matter whether you are Hawaiian, Portugese, Filipino, Caucasian, Japanese, or whatever bloodline you like claim. Yes, Hawaii is a melting pot of many races, cultures, and heritages, and we all see it every day. But everyone of us who has read or gotten involved in this discussion are here because we love, value, and Malama the 'Aina. Your race does not make you pono, your thoughts, words and actions do. This is why race does not belong in this discussion...because it is not a race issue.

Same with Class ("people having the same social, economic, or educational status," according to Wikipedia)...it's also not really the issue. No one is saying (or thinking, or implying, or whatever word you choose) that we need to close the forest, fence and eradicate, because the Poor (or Hawaiian, or whatever label you choose) people are relying on it to feed themselves. I am one of many who has had to rely on da 'aina to feed my family after I lost my job. The fact that I am not rich (or that others get choke $$$) is also not really relevant to this discussion. I realize that it seems like those with the $$$ get what they want, and that lack of $$$ can make it hard for someone to get "justice" in todays legal and politcal system. A prime is example is the money that Pele Defence Fund is trying to raise right now. Their lawsuit is gonna take choke $$$. For them to raise that money, they are going to need the support of a large and diverse community.....

Culture is relevant....Whatever is done with the forest needs to respect the cultural beliefs of the public (Hawiian, Hunter, Conservationist, Hippie, or whatever) and everyone's voice needs to be heard....and listened to....and their point of view given respectful consideration.

so basically, the point I am trying to make is that all of us--as Hunters, as Hawaiians, or more simply as Concerned People--need to be respectful of everyone who comes to the table. If you wish to see your point of view (no matter what side of the issue it is) be seriously considered as a reasonable solution, you need to focus on building consensus and getting as many people as you can to agree.....throwing out insults, or inflammatory remarks is not gonna help you make friends. Leave Race and Class out of it. Trying to tie the fate of Ka'u Forest Reserve to Race or Class is only going to divide your support base. Why shoot yourself in the foot? Again, my comments are aimed at EVERYONE, not just you.

In your post, you said that my mana'o is being heard and considered.....THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. That---and that you also consider the mana'o of people you disagree with--- is all I ask....[/quote]

OK, Misadventure Gear. I hear what you are saying and I understand and respect your point of view. I know why you are against my inclusion of race and class. You write really well but may I say that when you start off addressing me at the beginning of your post, I am apt to feel that you are directing everything that you say at me. It clouds what you are trying to say. Because you start the post out addressing me, VBK, and comment upon RACE and CLASS but then you go on about all of those other things. Some of which I have nothing to do with. Conflating everything into one big bag of worms is not something I would want to have to burden. I hear you when you go on about RACE and CLASS, and rightfully so, as I wrote those things to begin with. But when it comes to the insults and inflammatory remarks, I'm wondering if you are meaning me and what I've said and written. You make it sound as if I have been disrespectful of others. No, all I did was use a couple of words that you did not like. I know you preface things as I'm not just saying this to you....but at least with me, stick to the issue when you address something to me. Don't dump everything on me. I think its a fair thing to ask from you as someone who wants everyone's mana'o to be respected.

Mahalo and aloha pumehana.

I seen the video, I read the comments and I read this thread if there is another mtg. please let me know....I will do my very best to BE DEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly theres many who have no clue, I'm more than willing to stand against ANYONE on the opposing side and shoot down thier claims.

They talk about it being a hostile environment HA!!!! Have any of you EVER been in a room full of environmentalist and youre the only hunter standing up for what you believe is right. They should show that on the news it would be a real eye opener as to what a hostile environment really is!!!

Hmmm they always like to say that the fence is to protect and save the endangered species and you ALWAYS hear that arguement. But I will bet my last penny that you will NEVER hear of the plants and animals that the fences have killed. WHY NOT??? I can tell you of plants and animals that were killed, poisoned, pulled and so on. WHY ISNT THAT ON THE EVENING NEWS? If you going promote da good you betta reveal da bad.

Theres so much in me that wanna come out right now after watching that but I going standby for now gotta work tomorrow.

I"LL BE BACK!!!!!

Bradda Muns

The Meeting Agenda was:
10:30 Informal QUESTION/ANSWER time- View Posters
11:15 Opening remarks/Pule/ Grab food
11:30 Public comments

At 10:30 we were thanked for showing up early,Blessed the food and Ka'u, Offered food and asked for comments! After 1 aunty raised her hand and said "Maybe you guys should give your presentation first so our comments will be more relative" They then had Nohea show the 3 maps and mentioned they prefer plan "b", Never did they mention that they originally had 2 more options! Option 1 was fence the whole reserve! Option 2 Fence in all 3 options together (Roughly 25-30,000 acres) Read the Assesment I posted last week, It's in there! These options were not affordable so they were passed on, Not cause they had any shame taking it! THEY COULDN'T AFFORD TO FENCE IT IN! We were then told this would not be a question/answer type of meeting and they would be around after the meeting for a presentation and to answer questions and the testimony began, What you see in the video were a few of the emotion filled testimonies that followed! After the meeting there was no presentation, Representatives hung around for a few minutes and then dug out!

From what I seen the people who testified did a great job of remaining civil and never once was anyone threatened! DLNR, DOFAW & The Nature Conservancies plans, motives, techniques and track record took a beating!

I am happy to see that there is meaningful comments being posted with an actual discussion of the issues being presented.

In response to the post about the schedule of the meeting. The format was an open house where there were people available to talk about the plan and take comments. People came in over an hour early and refused to participate and instead sat down and waited to start. So rather then make people wait for another 30 minutes the organizers started the meeting. The group talking had already participated in a large group meeting with over 50 Kaʻu hunters as well as taking 30 or so hunters up to the proposed site. They did this despite the 2.5 hour drive each way it takes to get up there from the highway in Kaʻu (plus the three hours round trip to get from Hilo to Kaʻu). It was that important to them to get their input. This was in addition to talking with over 80 people in the community including the ranchers, teachers, keiki and Kupuna. They admitted at the start though that they couldnʻt talk to everyone so they chose (legally they didnʻt have to) to have the meeting so they could get the thoughts of others also. This was one of the most extensive outreach efforts ever done. Not perfect but a step in the right direction. The middle option was chosen as preferred in large part because that was expressed as preferred by the community since its in an area thatʻs pretty difficult to get to.

I work for a conservation entity (although I am commenting as a private citizen in this post) and know that as as an organization DLNR_DOFAW is trying to accomplish two difficult mandates: protecting recreational opportunities, etc for the public while also protecting native ecosystems. Many guys who work in our field, including myself hunt in our spare time and feed our families off of the meat we get. That being said we see first hand the areas destroyed by feral animals in particular cattle. The area being proposed for fencing in the Kaʻu plan is being hammered by cattle so badly that everything under the kupuna trees is dead and those old trees are dying also. One day it will look like the back side of Mana Rd, bare with only skeleton trees left.

At some point we have to accept that it doesnʻt matter where you stand on whether or not hunting is a cultural practice or whether it has happened for generations. There comes a point where sometimes we have to decide to do things differently. Damage accumulates and for generations the damage to our forests has been building. One day though, unless we decide to do things differently the damage will be so great we wonʻt be able to fix it and weʻll all suffer the consequences whether you hunt or not. Look at places like Kahoʻolawe. We all know there was bombing there but a large amount of the damage was because there were also feral goats for generations which were left to increase and run wild. Today there is nothing on the island including topsoil which was lost due to the erosion caused by the animals. That is the extreme situation but we need to put things in perspective. There is a lot of land on Hawaii Island, enough for everyone to accomplish what is needed. We need to work together to think of alternative solutions not view things as black and white and without compromise.

The Kaʻu project was and is trying to do things differently. They are trying to use peopleʻs input to help the decision making process which is why they chose to talk with the community and factor in their input for a whole year prior to the actual legal comment period. They are also working to figure out new access routes so people like us can get to the forest reserve to hunt. Right now, there are very little access points in Kau unless you know the guy with the keys.

At some point it would be more productive to stop the hate. Change can only happen if we work together. I wonʻt go into personal attacks about some of the people mentioned on this website who are feeding false information under the pretense of actual knowledge but be wary of who you get your information from out in the public no matter where they worked in the past. DLNR is not perfect, neither is anyone else and today more then ever there are many who see both sides of the issue working for them. It is not the DLNR of years past which was dominated by scientists, many of whom were not kamaʻaina. We as hunters need to start to recognize the changes theyʻve made and try to work with them. In the end, we all want the same thing: the preservation of our island resources and way of life. Letʻs become an ally rather then an enemy so that we can help them identify the roads we want opened for access, identify parcels which would be good for potential game management areas, etc. We can have much more power working with them then against.

Once again, the comments Iʻve just made are completely my own and do not reflect the beliefs or thoughts of my employer.

Right on R.B Mahalo for your time and mana'o. With that said I have issue with some of what you said and I'm glad you work for an "entity" as it'll make things easier for you to understand what I say.

I have my keikis tonight so will have to wait to expound on what I have to share.

Mahalo again for your input!

Aloha,

Bradda Muns

R.B working in the field you work in why have there never been a game management plan done with a carrying capacity with wildlife here in Hawaii? Every rancher in Hawaii knows how many cattle,sheep,horses or goats they can raise on land.Speaking with retired wildlife biologist Myles Nakahara he says it can be done just like every state in united states ,but not done in Hawaii? In Myles letter to Karen Rosa he told her to have a success before you waster more money going to another project thinking you can do better there.All the failed projects across the state by DLNR own admission to me they cannot go back into the large land mass that they fenced and eradicated and remove invasive plants.When us hunters go into these areas fenced and eradicated for a long period of time with no animals in there, the forest is dead and dormant and invasive plants took over.West Hawaii today published a study from a UH student showing rangers are spreading invasive plants from there truck tires.Just like we have been saying all along when they bulldozed roads they are spreading invasive plants, the animals dont fly to the mainland and carrying invasive plants back with them humans do,so we cannot blame the animals if we where not careful to bring them here its not the animal fault.What goes in the animal comes out the animal.On the big island we have lost over 2 million acres private /public in the name of conservation /preservation n now they want another 61,000 plus acres.What we are asking is why you taking more when you cannot manage what you have already taken,where is your success?They dont have ONE, JUST ONE.Why should Hawaii keep losing land at all failed attempts?Would these private and public interest groups spend there own money and not get paid to do it because they care so much?Nature conservancy use to be a land hold before, now, they still are and making a huge profit of selling the land .Example Kahuku ranch they sold half to the national park for what they bought the 44,000 plus acres for and waiting to sell the other half ,huge gain,huge beautiful forest with alot a wild game getting fenced and eradicated.We are land locked all over this island and being fenced in all over.What is the boundaries around kau forest reserve? The answer is we need to have a game management plan with a carrying capacity for wildlife,and go back into these lands by wildlife biologist own words and reevaluate the fenced areas to be fenced correctly.By biologist own words if you have 10,000 acres you would at most fence 100 acres ,manage it and then slowly open it up as a success is shown to work.What we have is federal funding and land grabs going on in the name of conservation/preservation.And you are right people should be beware of who is lying to you.