Bird Dogs

Anyone here into bird hunting?? I've gone along with my step dad and a few of his friends a few times using their dogs and also went a few times by myself with no dog. My brother in law recently gave my little sister a Pointer/Lab puppy and I have been given the "job" of training him to hunt bird. I have no experience in training a dog to hunt bird but so far I have taught him (still working on) Come Sit and Whoa and introduced him to the wings of birds on the end of my Oama pole to get him pointing and interested in birds. My neighbor has a few Kalij running around her yard that I let him stalk and point and then let him flush out but I cannot shoot them cause the lady likes them but am I messing him up by not shooting them?? He is 6 months old and full of energy! I have heard my brother in law is running his brother on pig already and he has already been on 4 pigs but my little sister wouldn't have it if I took our puppy out to run with my pack so I guess he will have to stick to birds!

I would suggest you to buy just a cap gun to shoot when the bird flushes. It is like rewarding the dog for the good point. The best way to train a young pup is too make them run with other well trained dogs. Any other question just send me a pm

Thank you for the suggestion Bigislandhunter! I am totally clueluess as to how to "make a good bird dog" outta him so I pretty much been just searching all I can on the internet and going with trial and error. It's alot of fun!

One of the things I did when I was training my lab/mix to bird hunt was to get a couple 2x4's about a foot long. Every night when I wen go feed her as a puppy, I'd wait until she was chowing down, and then bang those boards together hard. Pretty soon, the loud noise never bother her. She associated it with something good. When I went to introduce her to gunfire, while .22 shooting, she got used to it real quick. Also, If you go look on Cabelas, you can get a bottle of pheasant training scent. Put some of that on your wings too, to really make them smell juicy to your dog. Don't get too hung up on making your dog point though. Labs are naturally flushing dogs. They want to just run straight in. Yours is a pointer mix, so if he points, great, if not, thas okay too......My dog never would point so I just made sure I was with in 30 yards of my dog at all times....I had a lot of great years hunting over that dog....too bad she's too old to go now....Also, the more birds you can put your dog on, and let flush, the better,

I found that a great way to acclimate your dog to the game of bird huntin is to take her/him into the woods and play a trackin game. I would take a whole gamebird i.e. pheasant, partridge, grouse, chucker, or a bird wing with some cabelas pheasant scent on it, and tie a rope to its feet. Use some scent control/elimination stuff on yourself, then drag the scent laden gamebird through the woods over and under heavy cover in a wide ranging path with losts of twists/turns, backtracking, ect.. and hide the bird in some heavy grass or under a log/brush. Get the dog out start her out downwind. The dog's instinct will take over and will likely surprise you with how efficiently she finds and follows the scent trail and finds the bird. Make sure to bring along her favorite treat to properly reward success and above all make sure tto keep it a fun/positive experience for the dog. I found this to b a great training tool that allows you to start simple and more complex tracks later, and u can work on keepin the dog close, and in front of you as well as work on the other in the field commands she may know. Most dogs locve the game and it really gets them ready for a hunt. I suggest not to overdo it though, you don't want the scented wing/bird to be used for everyday play or become a fovorite toy, it should only be used on special occasions and where you convey a more serious/working type attitude to the dog. Although its a game you don't want the dog to think she gets to play the game she wants, it has to be clear that she is doin this for/with you, and it is a job/task. Don't know if that made sense. You could add a shot trainer, that shoots .22 blanks and get her to retireve the found bird to hand too. When the dog gets really good at the game and it is no longer a real challenge you may want to try to up the ante by pickin the bird up and carryin it for a while...i.e. interruupt the scent trail before startin again or take her out in dry/windy/poor scenting conditions. Hope this sugggestion helps...its worked wonders for all of the bird dogs i have owned. Of course i always make sure the have a solid grasp of basic obediance including sit/stay/ heel/ come (a tough one), and can retrieve to hand before startin the game. I have also used a hidden scented decoy/whole bird to train for whistle/hand signal/training collar vibration commands and on retrieves. This is great for getting the dog to pay attention to u while in the field and allows you to direct the dog into good lookin patches of cover that she may have ran past or missed checkin while bird hunting. Stay persistant, keep it fun, and always end on a positive note. Good luck!

Thanks for the responses MauiRhino and Blufin! I have taken him to the range with me on a few occasions and started off with him tied to the towhitch while I shot the 12 gauge a few times and then after he didn't end up under the truck I untied him and let out a few more shots with him just cruising around! He definately ain't gun shy so that is a good thing! I will definately start teaching him to put his nose to the ground and start tracking birds real soon as so far he has picked up the birds or the wings by sight only! Thanks again for your input!

Blufin makes 2 really good points. Always keep the training fun, and teach them to use their nose. I always did positive reinforcement----lots of praise and the occaisional treat---and it really paid off. I also invested at least 30 minutes to an hour every day playing/training my dog for the first year and a half of her life. She learned manners that a LOT of dogs I see don't have. My dog was a family pet first and a bird dog second so I was maybe a little more casual about her bird training than some hunters. Didn't matter to me, as she put up just as much birds as the next dog. As far as scent training, what Blufin suggests is really great. I also did something similar to that. For a lot of every day play/training, I also used a tennis ball. Sometimes throwing it, sometimes hiding it and making her find it using her nose in both day and night. She quickly learned the difference in the commands "Find the Ball" and "Find the Bird" and to this day, she gets worked up if I say either one. Nice thing about the tennis ball is you can use play to reinforce hunting skills. Whistle commands and hand signals are important too. I taught my dog to stop and look at me with one toot and to come on two toots. I found that worked really well for me in the field. I could stop her and then use hand signals to send her in a particular direction, or quickly have her return to heel if needed. Main thing is keep it simple, use what works for you, and keep all commands the same every time. There are some really good books out there that can help you. I used to have one called Gun Dog by Richard Wolters that really helped me out a lot. I just looked on Amazon and they have it for $17.13. It is worth every penny.

The guys are telling you all the best advice there is on bird dog training. I have trained a few generations of bird dogs, mostly retrievers in the past few years, I found it best to almost overly praise them only for times when they do something right, they get the hint real quick that whatever they did was desireable and I think your affection to them is more important and effective than a food treat reward. save treat rewards for simple things they do right and praise for fetching and bigger tasks. If you spend time with them then they mostly will just want to please you as their master. If you spend less time with them then they become more of their own master and are less apt to listen to you. I shot a capgun over my pups heads each time when they started to eat a meal and they looked up to see my reaction and I acted like nothing ever happened- soon the loud bang did not bug them at all, but it sounds like yours is not gunshy- so that's good. Like Blufin said, Keeping a bird frozen in the freezer to play fetch with helps them key in on bringing back birds - I've seen dogs that would spit it out and not fetch a bird because it felt and smelled foreign to them in the mouth because they were only used to fetching rubber bumper dummies and sticks instead - if the dog is getting hard mouthed and biting too hard into the bird it retrieves then have it fetch a hairbrush for a few weeks and it will get poked and will soon learn not to clamp down so hard. It's good to teach the the command "drop" so they spit out what they brought back to you, if they don't drop it then say it again but squeeze their mouth tight and they will get the hint, then repeat it all and saying drop again, it only takes a few tries and they will figure out that the word "drop" emphasized by you means they should spit it out to avoid the clamping of their mouth.
There's no real perfect substitute for on the job training, and getting that bird dog out in the field and working real birds is best for them to learn from, the younger age the better, working with an experienced dog is really a plus- they truly are a monkey see monkey do - I also think that the first year of that dogs life is the time to get into it's head what you want it to be like. I've had some bird dogs be practical genius at 6 months old and they went to their grave knowing everything they had learned by 6 months young like that- so very important that you get the time in with them like Mauai Rhino or someone had said previously, 1/2 hour or even 1 hour a day regularly around 6 months old for at least one consecutive month- if you do that then they will get it, if you don't then it is harder for them to learn via irregular training episodes- also remember if they do something frustrating to you then it is likely your fault so don't blame them - generally they want to please you - you need to put things that you want them to do into their perspective in order for them to comprehend it. watch their tail, if it is high and they are spunky then continue training, use repetition to engrain it into them, but if they are tired or tail down and feeling like you are on their case then you should lay off, only do the trainings at times they seem to think its fun. They can learn words too, but mostly they interpret tones of voice, I did have one dog that could understand spelling, like if you said the letters "O. U. T.", or "D. U. C. K." I think he comprehended the syllables separated out and then did his own math as to what it meant - it was amazing, I found it is best to use one syllable word commands and not multiple word commands, plus also to put a hand signal with each command and keep it consistent- they are also visually oriented and could easily comprehend hand gestures like a flat hand making a stop or stay signal along with the word "wait" or "stay", or an abruptly pointed hand towards an object with an excited verbal "fetch", or two hands up saying " Bird" or "where's the BIRD" emphasis on bird while you yourself use your head to look about towards an area. they get the clue you want them to search because you are looking for something if you look about and gesture to the area you want them to search in and use the word "bird". Also, you can be subtle in training too and like when they are heading into a kennel or a sleeping spot on their own then you can point to that spot and say kennel, then if you do that enough then one day you can just make a pointing motion and say "kennel" and they head for the spot you want them to go. Then one day they will simply understand that when you point in a direction then that is the place to go to, and one day they will be on a retrieve and unable to find the down bird and then hopefully they look back at you for guidance and you can point to the right, or to the left or directly at them and say "Back" and they will go search in the direction you told them to.
I used a really awesome book years ago and am still using basic principles I learned from it for effective dog training techniques- I was training labs and it was called "Water Dog", there is another one just like it by the same author called "Gun Dog"- I have suggested it to friends over the years who used it after to train their dogs and they thanked me for telling them about it. The guys techniques work wonders and if you read it from cover to cover and use what he says then your dog will benefit and behave more like you want it to.
sorry I could go on and on, I have found few pleasures in hunting that are greater than working over a well trained dog- good luck. the more time you spend training the dog then the better trained it will be, it really is simple.

Howzit AkAndy! Thank you for your suggestions and pointers. I will definately be heading to Borders tonight in search of reading material. I hear what you 're saying abaout working over a well trained dog and that is my goal with this pup. I can't wait till November to get him out in the field to see him work. Thanks again for your input!

I HAVE A COUPLE GSP'S I HAVE IN TRAINING RITE NOW AND ITS ALOTA FUN WORKING THEM ON BIRDS...........ITS ALSO ALOTA DEDICATION IF YOU WANT A TOP NOTCH BIRD DOG.........ITS EASY TO GET A BIRD DOG TO GO OUT AND FIND YOU BIRDS BUT IT TAKES MORE TO GET THEM TO HUNT FOR YOU AND LISTEN TO YOUR COMMANDS...........IM SILENT TRAINING MINE SO I DONT HAVE TO "WHOA" THEM OR SAY ANYTHING TO THEM EXCEPT FETCH.LOTA WORK THO BUT FUN......................

Young Dog, So are you training your pups with a whistle?? Sounds like alot of steady work! Heres a pic of my pup for everyone to check out!

Right On Brah,
Jusacrusah, that dog looks great. I dig the labs and lab mixes. Some too hyper and get ahead of themselves and when so excited they get going on a line and forget to use their nose and then they miss where the critter they are tracking turned to evade them and then they run out lost from what they started looking for. So it's real good to train em with real bird scent and make some blind trails that turn for them to learn how to focus and follow to the end. Some train way easier than others (the more methodical slow ones take to it easy), they just take to tracking automatic without having to get too much guidance from ya. depending on the dog you need to tailor the training to what it specifically needs. if this one gets ahead of himself then spend more time teaching him to stay on track and also set up blind retrieves to send him on, soon he'll put it all together. Put the time in workin with him and he'll turn out good. Make a regular routine and try to do at least a little bit, if not a lot, daily. good luck brah- wish I could come hunt with ya in November - If I were you I'd get a dead pheasant or francolins, and maybe even a dead peacock to use for training. maybe catch a live dove or pigeon and shoot it over him to make it real before season. and praise him bigtime when he does the right thing. get him to mark two birds down too, so he learns to stay on task and knows how to recall there's a second bird that needs fetching after he brings you the first one. I once had a dog that brought 2 birds at once, but several others that would spit one out to grab the second, better to have em bring em one at a time and send em right back out for the second one.
aloha,
AK Andy

I forgot to add that you will want to make sure the dog doesn't end up being too far ranging away from you. It can be way frustrating to have a bird dog way out ahead and repeatedly flushing birds out of gun range. Nip that far ranging behavior in the bud early, keep em close and connected to your mutual plan of working together, like blufin was saying, working for you. Use a long string and pull the dead bird or scent rag through the grass and change directions. to get em to stay and track properly wot their nose. i like that idea of picking it up too and putting it down again, some birds will surely fly a short ways and leave a dead end scent trail. Also, I would play fetch regular while they watch where you toss it, but sometimes cover up their eyes so they can't see where you tossed whatever you have em retrieving then use silence and hand signal to point to where it is, this can teach them to use you to help guide them to where it is.

Yeah when I first let him off his chain he automatically takes off and does his laps around the yard and then once he has checked out the rest of the dogs and got them going crazy then we can start training or head into the bushes behind my place to see if we can find the neighbors Kalij. I think it is his breed that he has so much energy and can't wait to be let loose. I've tried letting him loose at different times of the day and also a few times a day but he still has to take off as soon as his chain hits the ground. Besides that he will stay pretty close to me when I take him through the bush.

I think any dog after being chained up for a while would have to immediately explore their newly felt freedom as soon as they get off the leash and run around for a bit. I also think that most bird dog breeds are more hyper than other breeds in general. If your dog gets too excited real easy then it might be better to get him to an area where he calms down first before a training session. I had one dog that was too hyper for sitting in a duck blind at first thing in the morning- he just loves to see the shotgun and to anticipate ducks, so I toss him out and let him chase the truck for a half mile before I get to where I park, that way he burns off excess energy and mellows a bit before the hunt, and then he might be panting and noisy inthe blind but at least he chills out and stays put after getting a little tuckered out from the run. That might be something you could try of there's no traffic around and you've got wheels and you want to mellow your pooch?