Dog care

Gents,
Just thought I'd start a thread and share some knowledge that could save a few dogs. For those who don't know me, i go by Doc and have been able to help a handful of guys on here giving them meds and/or getting there dogs all cleaned up after a beating.

We all know that staple guns are a hunters best friend but I'll leave you all with some 'food for thought'.

What's the number one thing that kills a dog or will put'um outta commission? Is it hemorrhage or infection? Well depending on the situation, hemorrhage should NEVER be a reason. Every hunter should be able to stop the bleeding under any circumstances!! It's your duty as the dogs owner to be proficient in medical care for your dogs and also a hunters responsibility to preserve your hard workers. If you are two cheap to purchase a set of hemostats to clamp off a vein you probably shouldn't own dogs. But stapling and throwing sutures isn't the answer either. If you ask any doctor, sutures are ONLY used for cosmetic reasons and that any wound will heal as long as its kept clean. Do not suture/staple any wound that has not been properly cleaned, if you have the slightest doubt that there could still be foreign body (dirt, sand, ect) in the wound do not close it up. Never sow a puncture wound and never sow a wound that has been open for longer than 12 hours. Also, if you cannot see the bottom or base of the wound DO NOT SOW IT UP! You may never notice but infection starts immediately from the point of injury, it's a matter of how fast you can stop and prevent it. Dogs are animals and all animals have a natural instinct to do whatever they have to do to survive. Let nature take its course.

I don't know everything about medicine but if you follow the basic principals you can add a few miles on your pooch in the end. I have my hands on a few good meds and some supplies that can help you and your 4 legged hunters. I only write this because we owe it to the dogs, they work hard for us and we have to work for them.
If any of y'all have any questions or need any help, y'all know how to get ahold of me

Shoots!

Doc

RustyKnife wrote:Gents,
Just thought I'd start a thread and share some knowledge that could save a few dogs. For those who don't know me, i go by Doc and have been able to help a handful of guys on here giving them meds and/or getting there dogs all cleaned up after a beating.

We all know that staple guns are a hunters best friend but I'll leave you all with some 'food for thought'.

What's the number one thing that kills a dog or will put'um outta commission? Is it hemorrhage or infection? Well depending on the situation, hemorrhage should NEVER be a reason. Every hunter should be able to stop the bleeding under any circumstances!! It's your duty as the dogs owner to be proficient in medical care for your dogs and also a hunters responsibility to preserve your hard workers. If you are two cheap to purchase a set of hemostats to clamp off a vein you probably shouldn't own dogs. But stapling and throwing sutures isn't the answer either. If you ask any doctor, sutures are ONLY used for cosmetic reasons and that any wound will heal as long as its kept clean. Do not suture/staple any wound that has not been properly cleaned, if you have the slightest doubt that there could still be foreign body (dirt, sand, ect) in the wound do not close it up. Never sow a puncture wound and never sow a wound that has been open for longer than 12 hours. Also, if you cannot see the bottom or base of the wound DO NOT SOW IT UP! You may never notice but infection starts immediately from the point of injury, it's a matter of how fast you can stop and prevent it. Dogs are animals and all animals have a natural instinct to do whatever they have to do to survive. Let nature take its course.

I don't know everything about medicine but if you follow the basic principals you can add a few miles on your pooch in the end. I have my hands on a few good meds and some supplies that can help you and your 4 legged hunters. I only write this because we owe it to the dogs, they work hard for us and we have to work for them.
If any of y'all have any questions or need any help, y'all know how to get ahold of me

Shoots!

Doc

Could you explain to me the highlighted text above? I dont know how long you been hunting hogs with dogs but have you EVER SEEN these circumstances you so boldly write about? Have you EVER SEEN multiple dogs down dead and or bleeding to death while the other dogs is yelling,screaming and getting pounded and you need to make a decision on saving the dog(s) in front of you or going to the aid of the others? I could go for days about the battles ive seen and the dogs that have died in my lifetime can you? And theres a multitude of circumstances that come into play and sometimes we can only do so muc. So before you EVER use the word NEVER maybe you should think about what EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE TO BACK IT UP...Jus Sayin'.

Muns

Sup bradda muns I hear U, ive had a few cases that before anything could be done the dogs was out or about to die. Doc has some good points but for someone like me losing one dog was crazy... i did anything in my power to keep my dogs safe and healty and i still lost dogs to scappy boars. i tried to be as fast and as close to them as possible! to me thats one of the most important things u can do is be there where the action is... try to fallow your dogs and keep them located so they not fighting that boar to long. I carried all my medical supplies, had everything one can imagine and one incident that stick out is our dog RED... Boar broke his jaw and tore open the back of his throat cutting some main vains i guess. Looked to be one cut and there was not a thing i could do... sickest feeling in the world when u reach the battle and ur dog is already down... The only thing that made it easy was knowing he died doing something he loved to do. If you do have ideas that could help the huntaz Doc, let them know... theres a some of us that value the wealfare of our companions more then anything and keeping them safe is of importance. im glad i no more dogs now... less worrys but i miss it like crazy!!!

D. Rhoden

First off this isn't to be made to be a pissing contest, but realistically there should be no reason. I've had dogs myself get I knifed up a bit but no matter what story you tell me about your dogs, have you ever scene 6 guys in a truck get blown to pieces? Probably not.... So before you judge my medical experience to the slightest degree, I can give a lot of advice on ways to save a life. And no, there should be no reason why a dog bleeds out unless it took a shot to the heart. It is our duty to have accountability and responsibility to those dogs.
So it boils down to the hunters responsibility to make sure you 1. Have the proper equipment to protect your dogs i.e vests/collars and 2. have the equipment to to take care of your dogs afterwards. It is the hunters responsibility!!! I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but again realistically there is no such thing as an accident. It's negligence of some nature. But last night I had two hunters stop by my place asking me to fix there dog up. They were using tracking collars but not cut collar?! The dog took one to throat barely missing the major artery with a blood clot the size of a pea inside the jugular!! I'm not one to judge but what the f^#*?!?! I did what I could, pushed fluids and gave some antibiotics. So question, your dog goes into shock because of blood loss, what are you gonna do? What could you have done? We all learn from traumatic things in our life, I just wanted people to take something from this and become more responsible than what I've personally witnessed these past two years. I have some good people who've taught me a lot but doesn't mean you can't teach someone something new.
It's irritating to see the dogs we use to hunt get neglected. If you ask anyone who knows me, I don't have the best of dogs but in any degree I'm proficiant to stop all bleeding and stop infection. THE BASICS! If you think any of this applies to you...... If the shoe fits wear it. I hope someone finds the purpose of this to be useful rather than disrespectful. I find it disrespectful to take me away from my family to fix your dog because your to much of a cheap ass to give your dogs the proper gear/care.

I wouldn't doubt that you have experience but when i was reading your post i was reading it in anticipation that you were going to answer the questions you asked at the beginning.

Hey Doc,

I think medical procedure advice from you with specifics would be a good thread. Your post could be perceived as abrasive, sort of saying if you don't have the cash or medical knowledge, don't hunt. Ultimately, I believe your post is the top layer to something that many could benefit from as most people don't have the medical experience or resources to do what you do. Hell, I think the state could offer an extension to the hunter ed class with attention to medical treatment for hunting dogs....what do you all think???

PS
If bruddahs show up at your door for help they should give you compenation for your time. If not, direct them to the vet.

IMHO...Aloha!

Doc,

Its not a pissing contest you came on saying what you said using very strong language and I rspectfully disagreed. But you still didnt answer my question. Also we can talk about bodies but the point was dogs so i'll stick to the topic at hand.


Obviously you dont know me nor where ive been and what military branch I served in nor what I did while serving so my advice to you is if you dont know anything about someone you shouldnt assume cuz you'll make an ass of yourself.

I understand to some extent of what youre saying and to some of it I agree but I DO NOT AGREE with your statement about a dog should NEVER die due to hemmorhage thats just ridiculous. Because as we all know there are a multitude of reasons,circumstances that play into this and a lot of it is beyond our control or knowledge level.

You also must realize that as hunters or even in the military we can only carry so much. Being a medic or Doc you realize that we are many miles and many hours away from definitive health care. So yes we can stop the bleeding, treat for shock etc and stabalize the dog. But now we gotta carry the dog out. Lots of things can change and as im sure you know theres always chance for complications during this time of transport. We dont have a medivac to pick up the pieces so to speak and get these animals to definitive health care fast.

Lastly, correct me if im wrong here. When youre sick you go to the Doc (no pun intended) your car breaks you go to the mechanic, your dog gets hit you go to the vet etc. What youre talking about is at times NOT BASIC!!! To most people. To most hunters they dont have a vet,doc,etc to show or help them to do the things we do. I was lucky in that when growing up our vet REQUIRED US to help with the dogs and surgeries etc. Also have training from my years in the military and civilian that most dont have. SO something thats BASIC FOR YOU may not be so basic to others. Actually, the most basic of all things when it comes to bleeding is what Pressure! and im sure most if not all hunters know this.

So coming on here and saying no dog should die due to bleeding out just tells me you have little or no experience with what im talking about. But its cool im not saying you dont know how to save a life etc. but then again thats what youve been TRAINED to do correct? Answer me this, without that training and without any guidance to do such would you feel confident opening up a dogs neck/shoulder/ham etc so that you can find and clamp off the artery etc. Now days we got things like Celox that make it easier and helps out a great deal in SOME circumstances but I will never say never as I know better.

I think you are in a unique situation there Doc, in that in your current capacity you have the ways and means to help out fellow hunters to gain knowledge and insight on how to better deal with wounds and wound management of thier dogs while in the field or at home. Therefore while doing so you can impart some of your knowledge to your fellow hunters and that way they not only come out of it with a dog that'll make it but with the knowledge and confidence to do it on thier own the next time.

Lastly, I am in 100% agrrement with you in that NO ONE should never stop learning no matter how long you been in the game.

Bradda Muns

hayn/auzzi wrote:I wouldn't doubt that you have experience but when i was reading your post i was reading it in anticipation that you were going to answer the questions you asked at the beginning.

+1

hogheaven wrote:Hey Doc,

I think medical procedure advice from you with specifics would be a good thread. Your post could be perceived as abrasive, sort of saying if you don't have the cash or medical knowledge, don't hunt. Ultimately, I believe your post is the top layer to something that many could benefit from as most people don't have the medical experience or resources to do what you do. Hell, I think the state could offer an extension to the hunter ed class with attention to medical treatment for hunting dogs....what do you all think???

PS
If bruddahs show up at your door for help they should give you compenation for your time. If not, direct them to the vet.

IMHO...Aloha!

HH,

I agree! Ive talked with them about doing just that several times about dog care and incorporating hunting with Dogs into a special class. Kind of like the advanced Hunter Ed Class for Archery I believe they were or made one for blackpowder also. I asked about doing an advanced class for dog hunting as well where things like this could be taught in the curriculum. It never got anywhere but idk maybe someone knows someone that has some pull and can get something like that off the ground. Just a thought!

Bradda Muns

Murdah ink wrote:Sup bradda muns I hear U, ive had a few cases that before anything could be done the dogs was out or about to die. Doc has some good points but for someone like me losing one dog was crazy... i did anything in my power to keep my dogs safe and healty and i still lost dogs to scappy boars. i tried to be as fast and as close to them as possible! to me thats one of the most important things u can do is be there where the action is... try to fallow your dogs and keep them located so they not fighting that boar to long. I carried all my medical supplies, had everything one can imagine and one incident that stick out is our dog RED... Boar broke his jaw and tore open the back of his throat cutting some main vains i guess. Looked to be one cut and there was not a thing i could do... sickest feeling in the world when u reach the battle and ur dog is already down... The only thing that made it easy was knowing he died doing something he loved to do. If you do have ideas that could help the huntaz Doc, let them know... theres a some of us that value the wealfare of our companions more then anything and keeping them safe is of importance. im glad i no more dogs now... less worrys but i miss it like crazy!!!

D. Rhoden

I agree my bradda WORST FEELING EVA!!!

Take care,

Bradda Muns

hogheaven wrote:Hey Doc,

I think medical procedure advice from you with specifics would be a good thread. Your post could be perceived as abrasive, sort of saying if you don't have the cash or medical knowledge, don't hunt. Ultimately, I believe your post is the top layer to something that many could benefit from as most people don't have the medical experience or resources to do what you do. Hell, I think the state could offer an extension to the hunter ed class with attention to medical treatment for hunting dogs....what do you all think???

PS
If bruddahs show up at your door for help they should give you compenation for your time. If not, direct them to the vet.

IMHO...Aloha!

I wholeheartedly agree with this post!

Doc- I'm a Boy Scout so "some basics" were taught to me but I'm definately game to soak all knowledge offered by you and anyone else. Last week I saw a video where a few braddahs had an idea how a compass could get you back to the truck but they weren't positive! I busted out my compass and went through the same exact thoughts they had in the video! Had to do a refesher with the Boy Scout handbook to reunderstand Orienteering. Don't use it, Lose it! I think this thread has great potential to help many, for many! Could you tell me where I can get a pair of hemostats? I found some by bulk on Ebay back when Hypa mentioned having a pair in his first aid kit but ended up with a pair of fishing pliers that had the locking teeth on it (Still in wrapper). Also like Muns mentioned I don't like carrying anything unnecessary in my pack, What would you recommend carrying in the field and what do you leave till you get back to the truck?

I dont know where to start, but I'll appologize first hand for coming off to abrasive. When I wrote that post I was extremely angry and felt that the individuals that I helped out were completely ignorant. I've heard everyone say it here, it's the worst feeling to see your dog layed up, these guys had no remorse and it was very shitty behavior to see a hunter act like that. I'm sorry to offend anyone if I did, and please let this be known if ANYONE needs any help with a busted up dog, I'll do my best to help anyone out.

Braddah Muns- I don't mean any disrespect by no means, I've heard you do your thing very well. All your points are very valid, and maybe you and I can talk story over a few green bottles one day.

To all- if any of you are interested in setting a class up or wanting some hands on training, let's make it happen! I'd love to teach people some new skills! Y'all figure it out what y'all would like to do and I'm game. I got the supplies, y'all just gotta bring the beer and pick the place!

Doc

Koa Boa wrote:

hogheaven wrote:Hey Doc,

I think medical procedure advice from you with specifics would be a good thread. Your post could be perceived as abrasive, sort of saying if you don't have the cash or medical knowledge, don't hunt. Ultimately, I believe your post is the top layer to something that many could benefit from as most people don't have the medical experience or resources to do what you do. Hell, I think the state could offer an extension to the hunter ed class with attention to medical treatment for hunting dogs....what do you all think???

PS
If bruddahs show up at your door for help they should give you compenation for your time. If not, direct them to the vet.

IMHO...Aloha!

HH,

I agree! Ive talked with them about doing just that several times about dog care and incorporating hunting with Dogs into a special class. Kind of like the advanced Hunter Ed Class for Archery I believe they were or made one for blackpowder also. I asked about doing an advanced class for dog hunting as well where things like this could be taught in the curriculum. It never got anywhere but idk maybe someone knows someone that has some pull and can get something like that off the ground. Just a thought!

Bradda Muns

Bradda Muns,
Let me see if I can drop that idea in their heads again.

Its to bad Doc that you had to see some huntaz with buss up dogs and acting like they could care less... trust me from first hand experience get some guys out there that think like that. Dogs are dime a dozen and they just go out and get another one. Then there's the guys that go above and beyond to protect there animals. For me raising dogs was like my other kids, part of my family and without them i would never had been able to bring home the bacon all those years. I hunted with Muns on many occasions and know him well, he's a cool bradda and has some knowledge about hunting. I think alot of hunters could use some lessons on wound care and your knowledge could go a long way.

Happy Hunting,

Deo

I agree with da other braddahz Doc. Even I don't know proper procedure on taking care of a dog when he get hemorrhage, hemo guts, cuts whatever's. Thats why I put cut collars so I know they get at least some kind of protection but even that sometimes no work. Maybe a video demonstration or step by step of instructions would help us out. My dogs are my ohana too and would never want anything bad to happen to them.

I would be intrested to hear some dog wound care advice! i have casted broken bones,stitched & stapled my share of dogs. "mostly succesfull" but i have done it all by common sence. "stop the bleeding best i can and close the cut" i have never ben tought or had anyone show me anything about dog care. i dident kno exactly what to do on ALOT of difforent cuts "guts hanging out,broken legs" but i just do the best I can.... i would like to learn ALOT more so im better prepared in the future for this kind of thing......

Sounds like alota hunters would like to be able to learn to care for their dogs medically if their was class or something we could go to. I bet it would look good to the critics like the humane society, animal rights activist, and non hunters. That would be a pretty cool scenario if that hiker's dog that got ripped up by the hunting dogs was saved by the hunters themselves. Still a shitty situation. and i don't know if they did try to help, but just being able to offer that medical attention to someone who needs it is pretty cool.

Howzit my braddaz looking into setting up a class type environment where we can get together as huntaz and share/teach about how to deal with medical emergencies that arise on out hunting ventures. First I would need to know how many huntaz are serious to attend such a class. This will help me to gauge interest and supplies etc for the class and also how big of a venue I would need.

I apologize to my outer island braddaz but due to the fact we live oahu the class will be here. Maybe one of da braddaz here wouldnt mind doing a video of da class and post um up or something...just an idea! If anyone have any ideas on how we can include da outer island braddaz feel free to put it up.

This will be done after the new year that way all the holiday stuff doesnt get interferred with etc. So thats why right now if I could just get one list of huntaz from Oahu who would be seriously interested in attending Please let me know. So I can make a running list of how many huntaz are gonna attend.

Right now we just looking at basic wound care and management, tools and techniques. Just something simple to start and if this is something that gets much interest maybe we can figure out how to set it up to offer more in depth stuff...We see how she go!

So we'll start at that and see how this goes and then can figure out a date sometime early in the new year and a place to hold da class.

Aloha my braddaz and Stay safe,

Bradda Muns

Munsta Im down! Keep me posted on this!

Aloha Braddah Muns... I'm totally down bro. Let me know how I can help and I'll do what I can. Aloha. Braddah Pete

Rajah my braddaz!

Mahalo....Bradda Muns

kona nut cutter wrote:I would be intrested to hear some dog wound care advice! i have casted broken bones,stitched & stapled my share of dogs. "mostly succesfull" but i have done it all by common sence. "stop the bleeding best i can and close the cut" i have never ben tought or had anyone show me anything about dog care. i dident kno exactly what to do on ALOT of difforent cuts "guts hanging out,broken legs" but i just do the best I can.... i would like to learn ALOT more so im better prepared in the future for this kind of thing......

Nut Cutter- Rajah, youre not the only one im sure. Im hoping that we can put something together that helps others deal with different types of wounds and wound management, techniques used and the equipment needed.

Aloha and hunt safe,

Bradda Muns

**BRADDAH TOMZ** wrote:I SEEN ALOT HAPPEN TO MY PUA'A POUNDAHZ OVA DA. YEARS!!!!
BUT WEN I MEET DOC AN KNEW HIM 1ST. HAND HE SHOWED ME SOME GOOD STUFF AN SAVED MY PUA'A POUNDAHZ JUS LAST WEEK FROM 1 GUT SHOT...THIS GUY IS SHARP AN KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING AS DOES ANYBODY SEEN IT 1ST HAND!!!!!HE THOUGHT ME ALOT MOA DEN I KNEW ...AN I THOUGHT I KNEW ALOT FROM CHICKEN FIGHTING AND HUNTING ...FROM SEWING BIRDS TO STITCHING N STAPLEING DOGS.....BIG "SHAKA" BRADDAH DOC ...
**HUNTAZ UNITED & NOT DIVIDED**BRADDAH TOMZ

Rajah we should always strive to learn once we think we know everything mo betta we hang it up!!! Glad to hear your coons made it, gut shots/internal are always iffy even vets will tell you this.

Alohaz.....Bradda Muns