What is the training worth?

Edit: 10/23 Got a bunch of interest in guys wanting dogs trained but never received my accreditation
Let me know any feedback please guys! I'm not gonna take it personally if you doubt me but have heard enough of it to push me to want to finally squash alot of myths which are perpetuated by old time breeders and dog people. With this being said, Please keep in mind I can only take each dog until it reaches its physical or behavioral conformation peak (Pushing physically further is harmful to the dog) so while I can get a sighthound to chase something down I will never be able to get a chihuahua to hold a 200 lb boar (Physical Conformation) I can also teach a Bull to back up and bark but I can't teach a Border Collie to automatically lock (Behavioral). Thank you for reading this and I look forward to ANY input.

I seen a dog training camp on lifes a boar i dont see y not!! where u from? should b good 4 begining hunters that dont know how 2 train dogs. But shit should give it a shot because boar hunting with dogs is on the rize!!!
You should post one vid on what kind terrain the dogs going be in and show some action of your dogs and talk about your ways of braking in a new dog and what 2 look 4 in a dog? aloha and hope 2 see the train camp up and going.

howz it my bradda i from da big island hilo side

thats one cherry idea cuz, if you think you can do it, den bra do it. like shan said it would be good for the beginners people who like hunt with dogz but dont know how to train um, dats where you come it. I dont think there's anyone in hawaii thats doing that... so bra go get um ....Aloha

ShannonChun- Thank you for the feedback! I am from Kona on the Big Island. The properties that I will be training on differ from each other greatly ranging from mac nut and dryland forests in South Kona to Hapu'u and Waiwi forests on the East side. I will see if he can send me some video of the properties, If no can I will get permission to go get one. When looking at a possible candidate to train the main thing I want to see is that the dog has the drive/hunt bred into it, This in no way means a dog that doesn't show alot of this trait cannot become a main dog with the correct training and experiences. I focus alot on handle with my dogs and have seen this have a great affect on the speed of which the dog will turn out and it's always nice to be able to control the size of pigs, Call dogs off a pig, Not have to worry about meeting up with other dogs or hunters on the trail or even take my dogs to the beach or store and no need worry if someone wants to pet my dogs. I see this as where I can make my best impact on the dogs and the image these dogs are given when trained to only 1/2 of their potential. Thank you again for your input Shannon!

If you're interested in seeing my dogs I would be happy to show you a couple of them working but due to the fact I have not bred any of them I am hesitant to post them up here without the breeders o.k. I hope you understand this as I would love to post up my work for the public to see at this time but have had the guy who bred a few of my dogs ask me to not share the bloodline, Let alone post it up here. (I honestly don't know exactly what they are)

Thank you for your input also UpcountryHunting!

Howzit Bradda Isaac,

Great Idea my bradda folks been doin it for generations but never as a business venture too any large degree anyway. I feel you have the neccessities to get it done the three MAIN ones being TIME,SPACE,PATIENCE!!! Growing up we did the very same thing for ourselves not as a business. Growing up on da ranch afforded us the space/area/pigs needed to adequately train dogs with. Living there afforded us the time to do it and like yourself we just plain LOVED doing it.

I believe as you stated you can only train dogs to thier own abilities,behaviour and physical attributes allow. Yeah there are some exceptions to this rule there always is but staying within those parameters is a very solid idea. You can train some bulls to back up and bark but you wont be able to train every single bull to do that. And like you said as the trainer you need to be able to realize/recognize when that dog/bitch has reached thier full potential in your training regiment.

If your friends have areas with various terrain i.e. forest,pasture,valleys etc that is even better. Working the dogs in varied terrain etc offers a glimpse into thier own comfort zones etc in certain situations. Also having access to pigs that have been pressed alot and have grown into the habit of running at first sign of danger is also good. This will give you solid oppurtunities on gauging the dogs stopping ability on hogs.

I congratulate you on your quest my bradda and fully support your motivation and effort in putting this together. Hats off to you my bradda and Best Wishes to you as always.

Alohaz,

Bradda Muns

Well still no one answered your question. Whats its worth is what the buyer is willing to pay, around a 600-1000+ a dog is my guess. Lets say you go out and buy 2 good bloodlines and cross um. Then take the pups and train um up, to were they each can find and stop their own pig. Take how much you invested probably somewhere around 2 grand already. If your aiming for the best that Oahu has to offer maybe more. But Also what type of style of dog you would be hunting, and range. There are many different styles and terrain to hunt. So you would really need to push the fact that the bloodline will catch pig on all islands in most mountains. Every island is different hunting style the way the pigs react to the dogs and so forth. On Oahu it takes a dam good dog to find and stop pigs consistently. But from what i hear you can send a decent dog to b.i. from Oahu and it be a bomb. Just my thoughts so you would need to prove to the different hunters on the islands that your dogs arn't a joke. The credentials will definitely help lot.

Chee! Thank you for the well wishes Muns! I've had this on my mind and in planning for quite some time now and have just finished up my 300 mandatory hours of public class so it is now down to the written test which I am looking to get done in March! I am also looking into the CLEAC course with AGI and then hope to do more gunsmithing courses later on through them. I haven't been playing with the reloading much lately after I got excited about the speed I could load and went gun ho with the progressive the first month!

I actually ran the idea of training the dogs by couple of the more experienced hunters I know and got mixed reactions so figure this would be the best place to get feedback from the rest of the guys in the battlegrounds as I got the feeling I would be stepping on toes and that is definately not my intended purpose. I have talked with my legal advisor and am looking into "covering my okole" from the unfortunate events that can happen in full speed hunts and being able to reimburse the owner should I be found negligent in my training. Like I said it feels good at the moment to have taken it this far and I can't wait to get back to the actual "work".

I've already got an inquiry if I can train detection dogs!? I knew it was coming but didn't think it would come up that fast! I can but WILL NOT! I've got to many people invested in me to mess with that stuff guys. Thank you for the support and feedback!

DanielPeterson- I've got no doubt the islands are different and once I get this up and going I am planning trips around the state and if business is good I will fly to Texas and Oklahoma to see for myself. I will be bringing 2 dogs around the state (Yes even Oahu!) and have already lined up guys on couple islands that are willing to show me the spots they believe to be holding. The mainland will most likely be just a tag along with their dogs to see how they work and the terrain. Quarantine has proven to be a pain in the past even after qualifying for the 5 day program! Thank you for the input price wise! I have gotten a few answers also in my PM. I am trying to keep this as reasonably priced for the boys but also do not want the dogs trained by me to become the newest fad, Driving prices through the ceiling and driving down the prices of other great dogs. If my 2 dogs cannot produce on Oahu or anywhere for that matter I will have to come back to the drawing board and figure out what can and I will then train that certain dogs for that style. If you're willing to share your style I can train a dog to do it!

Isaac, Let me know if and when you planning to come here. I'll take you hunt no problem . And about the business, i say go for it never mind what some guys say. I know you heard these sayings "If you build it, they will come."; "Just Do It!"; "If can, can. If no can, no can."

Gaurantee Timmy! Your phone going ring before the beers on the plane is chilled! You get some beautiful animals and I would love to watch them action.

Sorry but I thought I put a price range in there but neva I believe $500-1000+ is a good range as I believe your results will differ with some dogs etc so therefore I believe price will have to be adjustable for this JMO. Also seems like you may run into a situation where you cant produce what you/owner wanted with the dog (i.e. training a bull to back off and bark instead of jus run in and clamp) so you end up with a straight up grabba instead of a tracker/stopper. So you would have to work out details with owner about said dog. Just an example but you see where im goin im sure.

The thing you will have to decide is what its worth to you? Meaning your time,gas,logistics,vet bills,feed,boarding etc etc.

But like Bradda Timmy said Jus Geev'um

Yup I hear what you saying Muns! Gotta remember the situations the dog can see I will never be able to simulate all of them and that will also lead to discrepancies in the final product. I've got a few secrets on backing the just lock dogs up that will take a VERY head strong dog to go against. I use the same technique when training the dog to grab where I want it to grab (If I want a dog to target the nuts or an ear). Thanks again for the input Muns! Keep um coming! The price will definately have to correspond with the time and work put in but I also just trying to pay the bills and have fun doing it!

I understand but would also be good 2 put your name out there so people would want 2 attend your camp its just like a commercial got 2 leur um in, if no one sees your work then i think would be harder 4 you 2 get ppl 2 attend but your idea sound good. And it would be good 2 take your dogs around state cuz i 2 think oahu has the most hardest grounds 2 catch pigs and i really think bi has a different hunting style then oahu but you would change alot off ppls toughts if you would show ppl your dogs catching pigs in oahu and all over the state so i cant wate 2 hear about your camp and keep hawaiisportsman up dated with your info ALOHA

Shannon- I haven't been able to get video of my 2 other pups yet but I going run them 2 this week so I will see what we can produce and I'm pretty sure Hog428 and HawgnDawg won't mind me showing them as I got them off this board. I've got my girlfriends old digital camera now so the quality of the videos I post should be better then what I've filmed before, Blurry dogs chasing a black blur!

Bye the way what kind of styles r your dogs track and grab or just bark and play um? what kind breeds 2 you run? If you dont mind me asking

Rajah my Bradda I believe and it seems like youve thought it out well in advance and this inquiry is just another step towards the final product so to speak. Yessah its doable some of the best dogs we eva had was PURE PITBULLS watching them back up and play one big boar is something you dont always see but was awesome to watch. I think youre fine as long as youre honest with what youre doing and everything. Like you said, providing video of the dog working,tracking,stopping pigs,different terrain etc. But in the end it comes down to I believe adapting to each situation and individual dog to produce the best that you can given your resources,techniques etc and I believe thats the best you can do to produce the best final product you can.

Goodluck and Best Wishes, Keep da drive alive !!!

Howzit, Jusacruzah. I'd like to see Ua in action! Interesting to see how she fights pigs.

Sorry guys! Laid down last night to talk stories with my girlfriend and ended up closing the eyes!
I have 6 dogs in my yard right now. I've got a Pointer/Lab(1 1/2 Yr), A Catahoula/Whippet (11 months), A Running Bull (10 months) and 3 (4 2 and 1 Year) dogs from my uncle that I don't know what they have inside. I've ran all of them by themselves except the Lab/Pointer cause it's my little sisters dog so he gets babied. I've got to take my kids to school so I be right back!

I like my dogs to either be trying to break the pig down or circling and barking. I've trained my dogs to do both and it's up them at what point they change their tactics until I want something specific. (Grab, Back up) The Running Bull came out alot smaller then I thought and I have only got to see her hold 1 boar by herself and she had him by the nuts! I never showed her that but it worked that day so I am not complaining. If she doesn't pick up size in the next 6 months I may have to teach her to target nuts if she does decide to grab but so far she has taken to barking the pigs nicely.

HawgnDawg- You've got my #! Feel free to give me a call, I would love to run U'a with you! If no can then thats fine, I will hopefully get some action shots of her to share this week.

I usually run 2-3 dogs at a time but have been training the youngins so I been taking 4 dogs on a few occasions the past 3 months.

Hey Hawaiian
Your finely going to do it !!! Good for you !!
There is no doubt the first year makes the great ones I know first hand you have the gift Ive seen it with my own eyes and buy the way my dog must look very short next to those shetland ponies you run did you ever get a saddle made ??

Haha! Good to see you still checkin in! She definately looks small but with her energy levels she can do donuts around my dogs. She still has chosen to stick close to my Catahoula/ Whippet when I run them together so them 2 been teaming up and hitting at the same time so perfect like that!

Nice idea

Can someone give me some feedback on the process of getting a GE license?? I spent most of today checking things out and think I understood most of it but I know a few of you guys own your own businesses or for the tournaments?

Just go in the state building and tell them you like get one GE license. Just sign some papers and done. It's that easy. Or you can do it online here. It's gonna be $20. http://www6.hawaii.gov/tax/a7_faq.htm#get http://www6.hawaii.gov/tax/current/bb1_vp12.pdf Make sure to think of a business name too. I had mines since 1994

Thanks Timmy! I read that thing a couple times today and probably going read um again! Yeah! A name??!

I got my as$ handed to me today guys! Training wise. I figured I would leave the older dogs home today and just the 3 youngins out. We got a late start but when we hit the forest we were in very nice sign and food. We came across a nice newly used bed and my Catahoula/Whippet took off with the other 2 right behind and then silence for about 15 minutes and the Running Bull came back. I walked downhill a little while waiting and never heard a peep for a good 1/2 hour so I figure they had to have chased something back down and so I called them back while heading down. 1/2 hour later still 2 dogs out so I bust out my whistle and whistle them in. (This has them sprinting to me..... Usually!) I'm not sure where they went so I just keep cruising in the area trying to listen for something and then my Catahoula/Whippet walks up like nothing. I give her the check over and nothing! No even smell pig on her. So I now have the last puppy out so I start walking the direction the other dog came from. My 2 dogs go out again when we heard some rustling above us and stop a small boar up against a downed tree so I am taking off the pack to grab the camera so I tell the dogs to back up and bark it. I have my arms tangled in my straps when the boar breaks and charges the dogs heading straight for me! I tell the dogs grab but they weren't ready for this and the boar came at me so I did some ballet move I've seen on T.V. and it goes right past me with the 2 dogs chasing! They come back in about 20 minutes panting so we sit there for a break and I call again for my lost puppy and by this time she had been out for about 2 hours so I was getting worried, My dogs are short ranged and so when they dissapear for more then 30 minutes they usually got something somewhere. After taking the breather I look at my watch and realize the sun is going down in a little more then an hour so even more I start calling and heading to the truck. As we were about 200 yards from the truck out and up walks my puppy soaking wet! I am guessing she chased the first pig to who knows where and on the way back decided to sit in the river and cool off! Needless to say I wasn't very happy but I guess I may have talked a little bit to much sh*t here in this thread and to a few friends in the past week. My dogs and mother nature had to bring me back to reality........... Again! Have a good next one boys. I am gonna go take a shower and nurse my wounds!