Aerial Rat Baiting

braddah mike wrote:do you know who was involved in creating/allowing this killing machine?will it be use on land adjacent to public hunting ground.is it possible it could contaminate streams/ocean?what is it made of?will goats pigs cows sheep dogs and other mammals be likely to see this poison as food sources?what type of fence chain link or wire on post?right on for posting this.aloha

HYPA wrote:Well muns you know what I think already about the bait.......Hell its how we met, I know some kinda control is a must but will it just desapate into the ground if the rats dont eat it and do you think they can gaurantee this stuff couldnt be dropped by accident flying in and out of the inclosed areas?

Jusacruzah wrote:You put poison here, I breed over there and move back in when your poison is gone! Do these people really get educated first or just sit in class and collect the paper at the end? I almost graduated high school once and even I know you would have to cover the whole island for this to be effective!

trackandgrab wrote:Wassup Munsta, Howzit HawaiianI cannot stand rats and wish they could all be exterminated.
However, with what limited information I have on the matter, this "poison drop" sounds irrisponsible I Agree and I have some questions:
1. Is it possible that sometimes they going miss the target and get some outside the fence? Yes, Definitely Possible
2. What about the pueo (Hawaiian Owl). Will they die if the eat a rat that has ingested the poison? Good Question, I believe they could die im not sure if these was one of the animals they tested for...Good Question!
3. Will our dogs die if they bite a hog that has ingested the poison? I dont know, Have this ? myself.
4. Will we die if we eat the meat from a hog that has ingested the poison? The active ingredient is actually used in Humans I believe its all about the intake etc.
5. What if it gets in the streams? Have this ? too.
6. Can it be transferred into the fruits through the root system and we get poisoned when we eat mountain apple or whatever? Not Sure, Will Ask.
7. If the rat eat the poison in the fenced area, can't it go outside the fence, die and then be food for animals outside the fence (like one of my dogs) and kill my dog? Definitely, What they are saying to this is that it'll be too small of a dose to kill a dog. But I still dont like the fact that its a possibility.
8. Would trapping work? This will be done in concert with a huge amount of traps that have been setup in grids throughout the exclosure.
I know we cannot get 'um all. However, I heard that there used to be a bounty on rats and the government or somebody would pay $ for every rat tail you turned in. If it were possible to reimpliment this I think it might be fun to get couple Rat Terriers or Jack Russels, go hunt rats, cut off their tails and turn them in for some $. Dat would be Cherry pellets and BB's be flyin off da shelf's
Kden Hawaiian...........Take Care Hawaiian...Aloha

BigBoarKVH wrote:Awesome topic braddah muns. Very informative and eye opening.

Jusacruzah wrote:You mention trapping will also be used, If they are setting traps couldn't they just set up some kind of canister like they did to the trees here a few years back? (White pvc strapped to the trees) I remember growing up seeing these and the uncles saying that they were for the rats, I guess they never work? Is throwing it on the ground better?

Nic Barca wrote:Howzit koa boa, I couldn't help but chime in.

New Zealand does a lot of aerial dropping of poison (10-80) laces carrots to control forest pests (plus possums, stoats, 15% of deer, pigs) . And try as they might, small ammounts inevitably ends up in the water, either by pilots who don't care, aren't skilled enough to avoid, or small streams were not mapped for them to avoid. The issue is easily used by those opposed to the practice. Another interesting thing: the poison has been known to kill kiwi, a flightless native bird, and the icon of what they are trying to save. The justification is that more kiwi survive because of the improved habitat and reduction of predators, than die from the poison. This is also debated by those opposed, but definetly something to think about. Collateral damage. Yeah know all about it we have been working with DOC workers from NZ alot lately especially on the rat issues. That is the base of it all "Collateral Damage" where do we draw the line??? When does the cost outweigh the benefits???

It's a controversial issue in NZ with lots of people up in arms against it. Not sure if I'd even want to get into that in Hawaii. But Lord knows the entire conservation community yearns for a way to control the rats (and cats, mongoose, slugs, and mosquitoes for that matter...)

I also like Justacruzas idea of running arround with a rat terriers and a bounty. I wonder how many they could catch and for what cost?

Sorry, I'm coming at this more from a conservationist perspective than from a hunter's. here: As TrackandGrab already stated Huntaz are the First Conservationist!!!
1. What is the minimum distance from the fence that they will drop the poison inside as an effort to minimize the chance of rats dieing outside and possibly poisoning, pigs, dogs, or even people? From my understanding it is figured out depending on the size of the area and then they figure what the distribution rate is for that area. So what that means is that in theory the whole area will be covered evenly throughout its entirety. Which figures that it would be dropped fairly close to the the fenceline. My biggest concern is that they cannot guarantee containment within said area Or what happens if there are still pigs within said fence? We know that pigs eat this like candy so if the pigs eat up all the bait then what? they die and one whole cycle of baiting has just lost its efficacy on rats because it was eaten by the pigs etc. etc. Most every fenced unit on Oahu borders a public hunting area (Not sure about the other islands but I would assume some are) now what happens if a big rain event occurs after a drop the runoff drains into the streams from the slopes on down the river and out of the fence via the rainwater. Now all this bait ends up in a public hunting area where you guessed it, A Hunter and his dogs go hunting. And theres alot more to consider here but thats just one terrifying example
2. Will there be warning signs and public announcements so that hunters can avoid the surrounding area with dogs until safe again? Yes, this is an absolutely needed protocol and as far as ive been informed it is definately gonna happen. But to what extent is uncertain, you know how these people like to put this kinda thing in the back page in the no-look section in the smallest ad size possible. The thing is they dont even know themselves how long is needed for an area to be "SAFE" again. In my opinion there really needs to be alot more studies done before this is done in such a wide and large scale.
3. I briefly read there is a bait that contains no chemicals, but rather uses a lethal dose of a rat-specific parasite. It's called Prorodent. Do you know if it's been looked into? I know that there are currently 3 chemicals being considered I only know 2 at the moment and hoping to get info on the third soon. The two that I know of is Diphacinone and Brodifacoum I will post the third when I have the info.

When does the cost outweight the benefits?

Koa Boa wrote:In my opinion there really needs to be alot more studies done before this is done in such a wide and large scale

Nic Barca wrote:Sounds like they're opening a can of worms. I Agree 100%

When does the cost outweight the benefits?

I think you'll find as many answers to that as there are people. I also Agree if it only pertains to animals being affected BUT when they are considering using poisons that are harmful to humans as well and have a slow "Half-Life" than thats where the BS ends.

I was thinking too about how people are doing it the "lazy way". Fact is, protecting native plants and animals is a desperate situation and people are trying to be as efficient as possible giving up on most areas and pouring their limited resources into preserving a few. I understand where youre coming from with this I hear it everyday. But sacrificing human safety to be efficient about saving a plant,snail or bird is NEGATIVE!!! Again just my personal view

My attitude to it all these days is if you think you are doing a good thing, just keep doing what you're doing. ...unless I disagree too

kumu wrote: Poison is poison no matter which way you put it! Just think, your best tracker happens to go eat the role or "loaf" that has been laced with the dope and POW!!! It happened to us couple times when I was a kid and used to hunt with pupule Martin and Charlie Do. NO LIKE ME THAT STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In The Struggle Together,
KUMU

stanton4life wrote:I AGREE AND SUPPORT YOUR GUYS MANA'O ON THIS MATTER 100%.KEEP US UP IF ANYTHING ELSE COMES UP ON THIS.CALL ME UP IF NEED HELP ON OURSIDE 673-9127.WOULDNT MIND FINDING OUT MORE INFO. ON THIS MATTER.MAHALO MAY BRADAH GOODLUCK OUT THERE AND IN THEM HILLS AND VALLEYS.
PEACE OVA & OUT MY BRADAHS.