Big Island Video News - Hunters

VBK wrote: Would it be possible for you to, for the benefit of those of us who have no clue as to what the Nature Conservancy is about, inform us about what its mission statement is, its goals and objectives, its reason for being here in Hawai'i? Does it promote and advocate acquiring more land and the subsequent fencing of such land? How is the land acquired? Is it privately owned lands that gets transferred into Nature Conservancy's hands or is it public lands? Or both? If so, how does that occur? Who bankrolls the purchase of lands, if that is the case?

The Nature Conservancy (TNC) has been working in Hawaii for 30 years because our islands are unique and native plants and animals are disappearing fast. Hawaii is home to over 10,000 native species, 90% of which are found nowhere else in the world. But Hawaii is considered the endangered species capital of the world. Most of our native forests and native birds are already gone and continue to decline. In the past, native forests declined because of human demand and development, including ranching and sugar cane. Today, humans and invasive species are big threats. Invasive species are plants and animals that are able to easily take over and dominate or even kill native species. A native forest acts like a sponge to capture and hold water, but when invasive species take over, the many layers of native plants diminish, and the forest is less able to capture and retain water. This means less water in our aquifer and more erosion affecting reefs. Water may not seem like a problem today, but as our population and agricultural use increase, conserving our water resources will become ever more important.

Hawaiian culture is grounded in the native forest though traditional medicines, wood products, lei and haku materials, the wao akua, and perhaps most importantly the wai - water. Each native plant or animal preserved equals a piece of Hawaiian culture protected. Our native forests are also valued for recreation, for their aesthetic beauty, as a living science laboratory, for forest products such as maile and koa, for edible fern shoots, etc. and TNC supports sustainable use of forest products.

TNC-Hawaii employees include both kamaaina and malihinis with cultural, spiritual, and family ties to Hawaii. Several are hunters themselves and a few are Hawaiian cultural practitioners. Our executive director was born and raised in Hilo. Because we think native plants and animals on land and in our oceans are important, we are trying to save what remains of them.

TNC-Hawaii supports sustained yield game management in GMAs and the many acres of forests that are already taken over by non-native and invasive species. In other forest areas with more native components, we support improving hunting opportunities through such things as relaxing seasonal and bag restrictions and better access to hunting areas. While we believe hunting is a legitimate recreational use of some forest areas, game mammals are not compatible with sustaining some high quality native forested watersheds. For the latter areas, protection with fences is a necessity. Typically we support fencing on a case by case basis in high quality native forests that need it. Not all of TNC’s lands are fenced. Sustainable forest management in Hawaii involves a balance between A) fencing and removal of non-native animals in the high-priority, native forests, and B) managing hunting programs in more accessible, lower-priority forest areas. Currently only 10% of Hawaii’s Forest Reserves are fenced. If we want to protect what’s left of our native forests, we have to do more. We think the state’s goal of doubling that amount to 20% in the next 10 years is a realistic and reasonable approach that protects more native forests while maintaining a viable hunting experience.

What TNC Owns and Manages:
We manage several privately-owned preserves across Hawaii (http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/hawaii/placesweprotect/index.htm) with the goal of improving the lands and resources (native plants and animals) for future generations to enjoy. TNC’s preserves are private and not always open to the general public because of concerns about spreading weeds, accidentally stepping on endangered species, vandalism/theft, and liability. Sometimes we host tours and hold volunteer learning opportunities, and we send a magazine to members and donors. We are also coordinators of the Kauai Watershed Alliance and East Molokai Watershed Partnership which work on both public and private lands.

How lands were aquired:
We have acquired lands (non-public/private only) and either managed them ourselves or occasionally we transfer the lands to public agencies. Land acquisition can either be fee simple, or perpetual conservation easement where landowner keeps title, or we can enter into management agreements or leases with landowners.

TNC-Hawaii funding comes from three main sources: about a third from private individuals and private foundations, a third from government grants, and a third from an endowment.

i'll reply later cause right now i think im gonna throw up.

WTF kind of bull s***t is this nature conservancy telling this forum ? Bra we don't need you people here period you people have done nothing but lobby are gov for complete take over of our lands. What u people don't buy you and Sierra club Talk kamehameha schools , Hawaiian home lands ,DLNR ,NARS and private land owners into fencing and eradicating our animals for money bottom line . What you people biggest problem is calling our animals invasive so you people can get private and federal money to steal our land . When u people going to get it through your heads our animals are not invasive and are use for ceremonial purpose and cultural n traditional purposes protected by state n federal laws . Just because u phd can twist it around doesnt make it so .These animals brought by HAWAIIANS AND GIVEN TO HAWAIIANS AS A WALKING FOOD SOURCE IS NOT INVASIVE . And if they are, Hawaiians are invasives ? Why don't you assholes come out n say it ,and if you are Hawaiian reading it and you are with them u are a sell out . Oops I forgot you mother f**ckers making sure they are for your self righteousness . We didn't need you before n don't need you now telling us you know what is best for us . See you mother f*** ckers in court . F**ck y** u period . Don't want to hear anymore bs from you n your group about what's best . The best is you people go back to wherever you can f**ck up somewhere else you caused enough harm to our lifestyle and the future of Hawaii . And if you feeling are hurt it's meant to be ,either you with us or against us period , nature Conservancy you are against us and always will be . People on this forum understand what I telling you n don't be tricked by this bs .
Joe Griffiths

Joe, you and me probably never agree on this so I shouldn't bother any more. I regret undermining your "grassroot" efforts to protect hunting grounds by stopping fencing, but I do believe it is a loosing argument. I think the better path is to fight for long term access rights to the 80% that may never be fenced, to do habitat improvement there, to improve hunting infrastructure such as shelters and smokehouses, form game management plans, and maybe even start a wild pig meat industry on private land so that animals will be viewed more as resource than as a problem. That is my personal opinion as of now. There are ways to get access but few people know how: permission, easements, agreements, purchase, lease, condemnation, sueing, legislatiuon that limits landowner liability... Get ways to do it. We just need to figure it out one by one place by place, starting in each of your back yards. And I'd like to help if anybody ever needs TMK maps.


VBK, the short answer is no. I can't support what I think that lawsuit is, but honestly, I've never known too much about it either except what I read on here. To me it's a weak argument that fails to factor in the legitamite conflicting uses of the forest.

There you have it folks!!!!! Straight from the horses mouth!!!! Thanks for straightening that out for us Mister Nic Barca!!! Guys read his post carefully. LIVING SCIENCE LABORATORY?????? That's what our forests are to them! Mo betta you no say notten arredy you clown! You only making yoself sound mo stupid every time you come on here!!! That's exactly why they fencing off areas....... for their science experiments!!!! That has already shown doesn't work!!!!

VBK sorry bradda, no can be civil with dis kine guys that come on one hunting forum for huntahs and try to make their ideals/views seem good for us guys. No can dis kine scrubs

Wow shrek. That is one of MANY uses. YOU should read more carefully.

The main reason for fencing is about preserving native wildlife and the water resources they support, which are in decline. Yes, it is considered by many to be a neat place to study nature (living laboratory). Whats wrong with learning?

No worries, braddah Shrek. Make no mistake where I stand on this issue. I'm behind you, Joe and the Pele Defense Fund and its lawsuit all the way.

Nic, is there anything that can be said or done to persuade you to change your mind? I know you stated that the argument is a weak one, and that you can't support the lawsuit? But, how can you say that when you don't know what the lawsuit entails? Of the good that will be brought about should the litigation fall in favor of PDF? On behalf of Kanaka Maoli and other inhabitants of this archipelago. Are you, as a non-native placing yourself in diametrical opposition to the rights of Native Hawaiians that are insured under the laws enacted for such protections, of which the lawsuit will pursue?

As for your question to Shrek regarding learning: What are your feelings about the continual assault upon the sacred mountain known to us as Mauna Kea? How many observatories does one need to be a learned person? What about the desecration of Native Hawaiian burial sites? How do settlers like yourself feel if someone were to desecrate Punchbowl Cemetery aka The National Cemetery of the Pacific? How much more land will be needed to make the training facility at Pohakuloa viable and complete so that learning how to kill reaches its full potential? Forgive me for bringing these things into question, but it helps me illustrate a point that I think you have missed or dismissed as weak and inconsequential.

I lived in Kilauea, where you reside, before you were born. I worked in the taro patches of Hanalei. I have family and friends there still. Back then, haoles like yourself were routinely beaten for their disrespect of local, Hawaiian culture. Ask the Hamiltons, the Irons, the Obergs, the Stradas. They knew. They had respect. As haole as they were. But the subsequent influx of haoles from the mainland on Maui, (where you were born), Kaua'i and the Big Island continued in spite of what can be viewed as "localism", that sought to stem the incoming tide of haoles, who took up space, jobs and were known by the many in the Kaua'i community as "worms". I point this out, only as historical facts as its not my intention to stir racial tension but to ask the question that seeks answers in regards to cultural sensitivity. I know your stance is one that is based upon the idea of land use. Know well, that many of our concerns are about land AB-USE. This could go on and on with questions about how do you feel about your partnership with Kamehameha Schools, who leases land to Monsanto, as depicted in a recent posting that I posted here. Are you complicit in your silence? Being all over the place may save you from having to lose face in the short term. But, you have recently been proven wrong in your thinking that aerial animal eradication on the Big Island would be allowed to continue. You could be wrong again, in thinking that the lawsuit and the arguments that it will set forward are weak.

Is there anything that we can say or do to help you change your mind?

He said the law suit is waste time . Ben they like us quit or put into our mind waste time .why ? Because if we don't try we will never know or ever get our lands back n have a judgement render in our favor to set it right. Nobody has ever exposed or bought a law suit like this into the court, and the big players that will be exposed in the harm to hawaiian people .This law suit is based on federal and state laws that are put into place to protect Hawaiians n they don't want this to come out . The chruches now support Hawaiian religion ,palikapu went to them last week n brought this issue on Hawaiian religion in front of them and they acknowledge they where wrong and apologize for not recognizing hawaiian religion . All chruches now support . How big is that ? Who cares about winning him over he made his stand he not for people of Hawaii having there land for there use or the protection of federal laws n state laws protecting Hawaiian people who are tied in the land and animals that there religion n traditional beliefs are protected . What court is going against there own laws and the chruch ? We will see one day soon .

As I read about people justifying why we should lose more land or justifying why they took all our best grounds and millions of acres all across Hawaii our home in the name of conservation/ preservation I think about my Hawaiian kids and my Hawaiian grandchildren Getting f***cked over and cheated . Not happening . Ben I know your heart n a lot of the men who come on here and i appreciate all your guys support . As they say in prison you get two choices ,stiff dick n fresh bubble gum ,but today we fresh out of gum ! Today conservation /preservation we fresh out of gum that all you got coming have fun .

Hahaha Mr. Barca, no worry I KNOW how to read!!! All I see is a bunch of BULL CRAP in your post. But I did see the BIG PICTURE....... It's what we been arguing about this whole time BOY! All that stuff about water shed, invasive species, carrying seeds, killing plants etc. etc. etc. is all BULL CRAP!!!! How you guys kill invasive plants? Poison! How you guys kill invasive rodents (mongoose, rats)? Poison! All this poison leeching its way into our watersheds! Carrying seeds? You guys doing the same thing when going into these areas!

Mister Barca, I remember coming onto this forum and seeing videos of you shooting cattle and pigs from the Big Island. Acting like you was one huntah. Now all I see is you trying to take away these rights that my children might not get to experience as they get older! Now you F@#K with me I can handle that to a certain extent. But when you F#@K with my children, that's a whole other story..... be ready for war!!!

Next topic! LEARNING???? Why you cannot learn in these same areas without fencing??? Why you gotta put up one fence? Is it all for science???? F#@K DAT!!! It's called LAND GRABBING!! You taking away areas from my children not to mention the children of HAWAII!!! We not just talking about KAU, they also fencing a big area in PUU MAKAALA up Kulani! A big hunting area that I hunt!! How much F#@KING land you guys going take??? The forest has been doing fine for hundreds of years without the help of you guys. You guys go in there and come out with all this BULL CRAP to GRAB LAND for your SCIENCE research!

So no tell ME WOW and that I should read carefully, cause I can see right through your BULL CRAP "BOY"!!!

VBK wrote:[color=black]
Nic, is there anything that can be said or done to persuade you to change your mind? I know you stated that the argument is a weak one, and that you can't support the lawsuit? But, how can you say that when you don't know what the lawsuit entails? Of the good that will be brought about should the litigation fall in favor of PDF? On behalf of Kanaka Maoli and other inhabitants of this archipelago. Are you, as a non-native placing yourself in diametrical opposition to the rights of Native Hawaiians that are insured under the laws enacted for such protections, of which the lawsuit will pursue?

But dont you think protecting native forests supports the preservation of Hawaiian culture? I am born and raised here so I dont exactly consider myself "non-native". I may be caucasian decent, but in my heart, I'm as Hawaiian as anybody else. In school, we grew up learning hula, history of the monarchy and its overthrow, learning about traditional Hawaiian medicine derived from the forest, learning about how the feather hunters gathered bird feather to create the cloaks for the ali'i, how to make fish hooks by tieing twigs, maile leis and haku, how certain native trees were used for certain types of construction and tools... To me protecting the native forest helps to protect all of this. So when I hear people opposing ALL fencing because it threatens Native Hawaiian culture, to me that means they are actually pitting themselves against other aspects of Hawaiian culture.

I dont like monsanto or chemical agriculture in general; I'm an advocate for organic agriculture and soil improvement. But I'm no radical. I sometimes use herbicide myself- for example I just eradicated guinea grass off my block. Herbicide is a tool, and a very efficient tool at that. But like any tool, it can be abused, so use wisely and sparingly and dont get your self relying upon it like the companie$ want you to. For the guinea grass, I only used it so I would no longer have to. Now I can go and dig out the remaining clumps by hand and not be overwhelmed. We're replacing the guinea grass with perenial peanut, other grasses, and gardens.

A lot of things were said to me/asked to me that I just dont see any point responding to. Some dont deserve a response.

VBK wrote:The Nature Conservancy is a partner with Kamehameha Schools who is irresponsibly leasing land to Monsanto and other GMO companies who are by the nature of what they do, committing crimes against the environment. Nic Barca will have to ask himself some ethical and moral questions about his ongoing relationship to the Nature Conservancy and its ties to MONSANTO ... But to be fair, lets see what Nic Barca has to say. He must publicly denounce the Nature Conservancy and its partner, Kamehameha Schools for the leasing of its lands to MONSANTO or forever shut his mouth up on all these environmental/preservation/conservation concerns that he has, and come to terms with the fact that he is not walking the PONO path and if he chooses not to, then he will be in my eyes and in the eyes of the entire hunting community of Hawai'i, a low life fraud that says one thing and does another.

LIAR.

You should avoid making allegations that are false, even if you just so happened to accidentally spell things wrong (just to be fair ) such as TNC leasing land to Monsanto. TNC is a non-profit and cant lease land to anybody for a profit. ...Im not even sure they own any ag land in Hawaii. They are only conservation partners with KS.

Anyhow, thanks for the good video. Learned a few things.

Howzit. Nic Barca, I was just wondering... Back a few years ago, maybe around 2009/2010, , you posted on here a report/update on your venture on planting fruit trees in the forest in the attempt to attract pigs. If I remember correctly, you had successfully gotten avocados, mangoes and a bunch of other fruit trees to grow in the mountains. Isn't planting any non-native trees in the forest a bad idea? Does The Nature Conservancy advocate/condone planting non-native fruit trees in Hawaii's forests? I'm not college educated, but from what I have seen on nature shows, animals produce more offspring when there is abundant food supply.

As an example, say that the avocado trees that you planted produced a bunch of avocados. The pigs that you were hoping to attract finds your avocado trees and for the next couple of months, they have a steady supply of fruit to eat. The sows get bred and produce a bunch of piglets. Then, because avocado(or the other fruit trees you mentioned) does not produce fruit year round, the food supply ends for the year. What happens when that food supply runs out? Will the pigs resort to widespread rooting in search of food? Won't that affect the growth and well-being of native/endemic plants and animals? Also, could the avocado seeds(and other fruits) germinate and produce more fruit trees in the forest, and over time crowd out native plants and trees? Noxious or not, non-native fruit trees in the forest can't be good...

Just wondering...

Gents, once again, I would like to remind EVERYONE to treat each other with respect here. You can disagree with each other all you want, but please try to avoid the personal attacks and focus on the issues and solutions.

A question was asked what could sway Nic (or other people) towards your point of view, and he has stated that he is not completely sure about what the lawsuit is about. I'm sure there are a lot more than just Nic who would like to hear more clearly was the lawsuit is trying to do. What are the specific alternative management plans that you want to do, and how specifically should Kau FR be managed?

For your info when we Pau with our waste time law suit STATEWIDE against DLNR (NARS PROGRAM ) Hawaiian homes land , we will file law suit against tnc , Sierra Club n other private land grabbers in the state of Hawaii . And for your info your so call bosses no we coming .

I feel that the biggest threat to the Ka'u forest is the Volcanoes national Park and Kahuku Ranch and their removal of ungalates that once kept those lands "maintained"! When they removed these ungulates they now have weeds prospering and are resorting to "Just enough poison" to deal with this problem. I spoke with a few Ka'u boys and they've expressed concern to the fact that the National Park drives the top fenceline and is spraying poison and also getting poison into the reserve and it is having an effect on pig numbers thru the water which the people of Ka'u also drink!

Nic- You and I are about the same age so I feel we were taught similarly (I went public school, How bout you?) about the illegal over throw of the Hawaiian monarchy, Schools nowadays have cut back on that lesson! I was curious about this so I sat down with my baby sister who is a sophmore in high school, While she knew what year and who was the last monarch she had no idea of the Bayonet constitutions details or how big of an influence the Japanese had in the urgency to get this signed! Sad! I am not a native hawaiian Nic but am no doubt an island boy, I've gotten to see the blatant ignorance displayed by the people of foreign interests and it's affect on the Hawaii I grew up in. I've also got friends who went Punahou and believe me they get a totally different education on Hawaiian history in hopes they are the "leaders of Hawaii tommorow". When I spoke to you in PM about looking into getting involved in conservation and possibly employment I told you I had strong feelings and felt these feelings would affect these foreigners ability to cloud my judgement and make me a puppet, Your response that took you 3 weeks to prepare reaks of "Legal department" or press release literature and has me questioning if you're truly seeing and thinking straight Nic! As a "Person truly of and for Hawaii" I appreciate the oppurtunity to learn Nic but what I've learned thus far is that TNC and DLNR has FAILED and have proven to have their own ideas which differ greatly from what the people who rely on these resources believe is needed. I checked out the Nature Conservancy site and came across Three Mountain Alliances #'s, 1 Million Acres of the most intact native forest in the state Nic! Is this not enough land by itself to "Use as a classroom and Save for future generations to enjoy"? That is just 1 spot that has already been taken and today they "need" more? The land is perpetuated in righteousness and only through righteousness, Do what's right Nic!

hawgandawg wrote:Howzit. Nic Barca, I was just wondering... Back a few years ago, maybe around 2009/2010, , you posted on here a report/update on your venture on planting fruit trees in the forest in the attempt to attract pigs. If I remember correctly, you had successfully gotten avocados, mangoes and a bunch of other fruit trees to grow in the mountains. Isn't planting any non-native trees in the forest a bad idea? Does The Nature Conservancy advocate/condone planting non-native fruit trees in Hawaii's forests?...

Yes, that was the idea and those were the concerns. You got that right and thats part of why a lot of people were skeptical or concerned. Others were more supportive. The plants chosen were non-invasive and the idea was to plant them in already non-native areas. They would not spread far, if at all, and would just just diversify the food supplies so that there would be less rooting. Pigs would still root for 5% of their daily stomach content in earthworms unless an alternative above ground protein source could be found ...such as a nut. The food plot would attract pigs to an area which would make hunting better. Damage from pigs would decline either by hunters catching pigs more effectively (similar to in the roseapple patches), and or the damage would not be as great even if there were more pigs because they would need to root less (net decrease in damage). Location wise, it would need to be accessable. The question here is whether pigs are limited by food? Disease is a proven limiting factor in the remote mountains and most young pigs die off before maturing.

Another theory was that if you provided pigs with an alternative food source in a native forest they would not eat as many native plants. About population increasing, at least one study shows pigs in Hawaii are not limited by food, but rather disease. But again, people feared making the problem even worse so the idea never gained widespread support.

TNC never took any stance or ever got involved but condones planting invasive species that would take over native forests, cause watersheds to deteriorate, species to go extinct, etc. But again, my idea was to use non-invasive species and in ways that would help the forest, not harm them. And now the organic ag people and permaculteralists are rallying behind the idea of "food forests".

So basically doing what these conservationists TRY to do all the time....... PLAY GOD!!!! Going on theories!!!! Let mother nature take its course. Things die off and new things appear! It would be a very different world if we still had dinosaurs...but that died off and animals evolved to adapt to the changes of our world.....All done by.....yes MOTHER NATURE!!!! Let her take her course and stop trying to PLAY GOD!!!!!

Only the strong survive!!!!!! That's why we have all these diseases and birth defects. People trying to PLAY GOD!!! GMO.....PLAYING GOD!!!! Fencing off land for theories, science, land grabbing......PLAYING GOD!!!!! When is enough...enough????

Jusacruzah wrote:
I feel that the biggest threat to the Ka'u for

Three mountain alliance has 1 million acres that they are managing, but only a fraction of that is actually fenced. ...I don't have numbers to back that up.

When I took that Hawaiian history class, I think it was an elective and only for a semester. That sucks if they cancelled it.

If it reaks of "legal argument", yep. A few people helped make sure I didn't mis-state TNC's mission and purpose for being here in Hawaii and added some of the other info about funding and what not which I didn't know. On top of the few weeks I waited before even starting, that took four more days for it to make rounds in emails. That was TNC's position, their mission, and I took the lead in writing it and I was the messenger, thus the disclaimer that it was the views and opinions of TNC. It was an interesting process and differed from my own views in one way. I was under the different opinion that hunting can be a management tool to supress animal damage. That part got changed and that was TNC's position.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Nic I was under the impression that you wrote that out and then had TNC "Ok it".
We first covered the overthrow of the hawaiian kingdom in 7th grade social studies/ Hawaiian History, I would reccomend and ask you to do some research on the matter Nic! As an inhabitant of these islands I believe it is beneficial knowledge for the future of Hawaii.

Nic you just told us what we already know about you ,people reading your posts know its not only you talking For a long time . Why would tnc care about us hunters ? People who cheat and lie do so they know how to keep manipulating. To misadventure we tired of your guys bs period ,Hawaii has had enough of tnc n Sierra Club ,three mountain alliance,DLNR ,NARS etc: U ask for respect on here to each other but we have lost everything to land grabbers with there views on what's best for us n you want respect . You must not know about respect you can't demand it you earn it ,and tnc and company never respected people of Hawaii or do they share the same beliefs and never will until they are court order. You want to know more about the law suit watch what was posted on the Kau forest reserve video .PELE DEFENSE FUND palikapu is the last one speaking n tells you straight ,your bosses know .